The result of the EU referendum:

[Nearly Sane]

Sorry, with all the firing on all cylinders here I misconceived the meaning of your original post on the word 'renegotiation'. My mind was on trade deals and what not, and not on refiguring our EU membership. You are right, any attempt to not to fulfil the wishes of a leave vote would set the cats among the pigeons, not only in parliament but in the streets.

No problem, often easy to get these things wrong

[L.A.]

He would only get the leadership if he promised to support leave in that situation. Were he to go back on that there would be even more strife.

He's a politician! . . . and anyway, he'd probably have crossed his fingers.

By that point the blades of the fan would be well and truly coated in the brown-stuff, so most of his party would just be looking for a way out.

[Nearly Sane]

He's a politician! . . . and anyway, he'd probably have crossed his fingers.

By that point the blades of the fan would be well and truly coated in the brown-stuff, so most of his party would just be looking for a way out.

And the way out would be his. Going against a referendum vote would mean they would lose their seats. He would be toast.

[L.A.]

And the way out would be his. Going against a referendum vote would mean they would lose their seats. He would be toast.

Even the most optimistic Brexiteer concedes that there will be an economic down-turn in the event of an out vote. If that happens a large number of them will be seriously worred about what they have done. It might take a bit of spin, but if the 'golden boy' could offer a solution, I think the majority would buy it.

[Nearly Sane]

Even the most optimistic Brexiteer concedes that there will be an economic down-turn in the event of an out vote. If that happens a large number of them will be seriously worred about what they have done. It might take a bit of spin, but if the 'golden boy' could offer a solution, I think the majority would buy it.

The sort of change in the economy and then from there a change in the voters, specifically when there has been a democratic vote takes too long. There isn't enough time to do this sort of switch.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Immigration is just something that the people can see and easily latch on to. The real issue is democracy and self rule.

Immigration? Have Gove and Johnson, Globalists, committed to ending it? Will Rupert Murdoch be refused entry?

Democracy. Arron Banks wanted to stop an extension for voters registration.

The Guardian has reported intimidation of those displaying Remain stickers.

Thomas Mair is no one off since the police have now taken to warning MP's about their security.

You are right about Brexit being a rainbow coalition of people ranging from those who hope Europe will come back on their knees and grant Britain a divorce and 'Red Hot economic sex' to those who just look two or three weeks ahead and see a nice bit of mayhem through to those who just want to give the establishment a bloody nose ( By lining up with Gove, Johnson and the establishment press ).

Again I ask you....... what will happen to those who will lose their jobs, homes, experience family, break up because of Brexit.

How long will the NHS have to wait for it's 100 million a week?

What does payment over successive parliaments mean?

Why cannot the Leave campaign commit to zero immigration or even give a figure?

And finally don't forget how the last popular uprising in this country went....The petrol protest? Fucking mayhem followed by a collapse when it was realised as a big Phyrric victory.

If UKIP had had any guts....If the Tories had had any Guts they should have declared In and either decisively in or out respectively and we could have voted on that, in the time honoured way in an election where there would have to have been manifestos not fucking fantasy countries. But no because it is the same weasly politics of trying to pull off a diddle.

[L.A.]

The sort of change in the economy and then from there a change in the voters, specifically when there has been a democratic vote takes too long. There isn't enough time to do this sort of switch.

There would be a crisis, an emergency budget, everyone except the hard-line Brexiteers would be worried verging on panic.

[Rhiannon]

There would be a crisis, an emergency budget, everyone except the hard-line Brexiteers would be worried verging on panic.

NS is right. Democracy in action.

[L.A.]

NS is right. Democracy in action.

I think it would be more a case of sorting out the mess that the democratic decision caused.

[Nearly Sane]

There would be a crisis, an emergency budget, everyone except the hard-line Brexiteers would be worried verging on panic.

Many of the hard liners are Tories. Going against a referendum vote will cause it's own crisis and yet another emergency. If you go down the route of denying democracy, there will be a breakdown in social cohesion.

[Nearly Sane]

I think it would be more a case of sorting out the mess that the democratic decision caused.

Mmm posts like that give credibility to some of Jack Knave's ideas on the EU.

[Nearly Sane]

Has Vlad really used Jo Cox's murder as an argument for stay?

[L.A.]

Many of the hard liners are Tories. Going against a referendum vote will cause it's own crisis and yet another emergency. If you go down the route of denying democracy, there will be a breakdown in social cohesion.

It wouldn't be going against the referendum - Britain would still leave the EU. Certainly some hard liners would be opposed to a Norway solution but I''d guess that a lot would be happy to have a straw to grasp.

[Nearly Sane]

It wouldn't be going against the referendum - Britain would still leave the EU. Certainly some hard liners would be opposed to a Norway solution but I''d guess that a lot would be happy to have a straw to grasp.

No renegotiating means staying. It isn't Norway. It means exactly staying in the EU, that's why it won't work

[L.A.]

No renegotiating means staying. It isn't Norway. It means exactly staying in the EU, that's why it won't work

It's the first time I have heard that POV. In the early days many in the Brexit camp were praising the virtues of a Norway-type deal.

[Nearly Sane]

It's the first time I have heard that POV. In the early days many in the Brexit camp were praising the virtues of a Norway-type deal.

which is not a renegotiating. Renegotiating is renegotiating our membership. That's what the Re is there for.

[SweetPea]

SweetPea, The statue of the pagan goddess Europa riding on the back of a beast, which Zeus transformed himself into to seduce her) outside the EU headquarters is strange. I don't quite know why they have it, or whether the myth means anything in particular, but would be interested in your opinion on this:
"The Lisbon Treaty, which came into full effect on December 1st, basically ended the national sovereignty for most European nations.  Most of the important decisions for the citizens of Europe will now be made by a small group of European elitists – many of them totally unelected.  But for the global elite, the consolidation of the EU is just one step towards a larger goal.  You see, the ultimate desire of these elitists is to merge regional alliances such as the EU into a world government."
https://inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.com/2012/05/19/europe-rides-the-beast/
The article seems a bit paranoid, but one does wonder why the woman on a beast is used as a symbol in the various statues, coins and pictures shown in the link, when it has such negative connotations in Revelation.

Yes, Spud, symbolism is very significant as a form of representation, and the statue of the woman riding the beast outside the EU headquarters is quite telling. They are revealing themselves to the world in a way that is hidden in plain sight, and which could well read as having a connection to Revelation.

It's interesting because many will not recognise what they are looking at, but, for those that do, the message is clear.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, Spud, symbolism is very significant as a form of representation, and the statue of the woman riding the beast outside the EU headquarters is quite telling. They are revealing themselves to the world in a way that is hidden in plain sight, and which could well read as having a connection to Revelation.

It's interesting because many will not recognise what they are looking at, but, for those that do, the message is clear.

So tell us all about it.

[SweetPea]

Here's having a go....

The world system as we know it, biblically speaking, is Babylon... and the EU is part of that system. The statue symbolises just that.

So then, God says, "....come out of her, my people..." meaning come out of the corrupt world system (that some refer to as the matrix).... and free yourselves.

[Nearly Sane]

Here's having a go....

The world system as we know it, biblically speaking, is Babylon... and the EU is part of that system. The statue symbolises just that.

So then, God says, "....come out of her, my people..." meaning come out of the corrupt world system (that some refer to as the matrix).... and free yourselves.

This relates to a statue of Europa in what way?

[Rhiannon]

This relates to a statue of Europa in what way?

Or, indeed, real life.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Here's having a go....

The world system as we know it, biblically speaking, is Babylon... and the EU is part of that system. The statue symbolises just that.

So then, God says, "....come out of her, my people..." meaning come out of the corrupt world system (that some refer to as the matrix).... and free yourselves.

But The EU is not the world system.

As a parallel The EU is less of a single Europe than the Roman Empire. St Paul makes defence for not overturning that system by exhorting the current social system to stay put and also with exhortations to obey the Rule.

When the fall of Rome does come it is seen by Augustine as a disaster as Rome is taken over by a backward looking Rabble.

However Christianity does affect great change from within and when push comes to shove the church is the thing which remains from a Christianised Rome.

I would be interested to see a Christian theological justification for Brexit but think there is precedence for remain in mainstream Christianity.

In terms of those leading us out of Europe Gove and Johnson. They are globalists.

[Brownie]

Here's having a go....

The world system as we know it, biblically speaking, is Babylon... and the EU is part of that system. The statue symbolises just that.

So then, God says, "....come out of her, my people..." meaning come out of the corrupt world system (that some refer to as the matrix).... and free yourselves.

'Babylon' is an urban word that means corrupt establishment, generally the police force.
However you say 'Babylon' is a word for the 'world system'
So the statue symbolises the people riding out of the world system, whatever that is, and away from the law?

Nah.  The statue is Europa, one posh lady of impeccable lineage and the Phoenician mother of the King of Crete.  She was, according to mythology, abducted by Zeus on a white bull.
Nothing more, nothing less.  Don't read more into it.  It is quite an appropriate symbol for the EU and very attractive.

[L.A.]

which is not a renegotiating. Renegotiating is renegotiating our membership. That's what the Re is there for.

I'm not sure what you are talking about NS.

The referendum will give us two choices: IN or OUT. If the electorate is stupid enough to vote for OUT, it will the duty of the government (whoever that might be at that point) to sort out the mess that will inevitably follow.

Of course hard-line Brexiteers do not want any kind of agreement with the EU - but there will be nothing on the ballot slip to that effect.  If less reckless government choose to negotiate a Norway type deal that would be quite reasonable and perfectly democratic.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'm not sure what you are talking about NS.

The referendum will give us two choices: IN or OUT. If the electorate is stupid enough to vote for OUT, it will the duty of the government (whoever that might be at that point) to sort out the mess that will inevitably follow.

Of course hard-line Brexiteers do not want any kind of agreement with the EU - but there will be nothing on the ballot slip to that effect.  If less reckless government choose to negotiate a Norway type deal that would be quite reasonable and perfectly democratic.

Yep Cameron should have set forward the range of options on the ballot paper since he stupidly chose a referendum in the first place.
Another example of Drombey power getting something dumbed down.