The result of the EU referendum:

[SusanDoris]

Vlad - Thank you for your comment - I'll answer tomorrow.

[SusanDoris]

....And I would like to hear what secular humanists and their fellow travellers think of secular Britain at the moment.

Has it turned out to be a paradise of inevitable human progress?

Well, I haven't seen any comments by secular humanists recently, but will make a point of listening to the next NSS newsletter. As far as I'm concerned, it worries me that a person wishing to be the PM of this country is not aware that, even if she believes a God exists, it does nothing that would distinguish life from what it is without a God.
 

The world will never be a paradise, since that, like all gods, is an idea which is a product of the evolved human brain's imagination.

[ProfessorDavey]

....And I would like to hear what secular humanists and their fellow travellers think of secular Britain at the moment.

Has it turned out to be a paradise of inevitable human progress?

We are in worrying times.

That said most of the problems are entirely outwith the sphere of secular humanism vs theocracy. There is little of the EU debate that relates to that at all, beyond a rather vague secular humanist notion of being better when we work together and the occasional nasty streak that implies that a reason not to allow Turkey into the EU is that they aren't a 'christian' country.

I have concerns though about Leadsom as she comes across as the kind of 'certain of her views' socially conservative christian that worries me for the continued progress of a progressive equality agenda, which of course is only compatible with secularism in its purest notion. I worry that she'd look to reign back equality gains and would place religious groups even more on a 'not to be touched' pedestal than they are currently.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

We are in worrying times.

Worrying!! understatement of the year old son, desperate is the word I would use.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36739781

Nevermind, it will all be over by Christmas, and yes I claim the prize for being the first poster to mention Christmas this year.

Gonnagle.

[Brownie]

I can see British soldiers bringing home Polish and Estonian brides.  Aaaargh!  More foreigners!!!  We soon won't recognise Our England with so many white faces!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Brownie,

Aye! poor old England, you can pull the drawbridge up on the Caley tunnel but you have those back stabbing Jocks with their down and dirty open hand of friendship willing to accept any Tom, Dick or Abdul, those Scots won't care about a border, hell the tartan hordes will also accept Englishmen their is no depth to their depravity.

Gonnagle.

[Harrowby Hall]

I can see British soldiers bringing home Polish and Estonian brides.  Aaaargh!  More foreigners!!!  We soon won't recognise Our England with so many white faces!

And then she might ban Diwali and replace it by a special day early in November when we shall light fires and let off fireworks to celebrate her rescue of Parliament from the Bremainers (who will be burnt on the fires).

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Well, I haven't seen any comments by secular humanists recently, but will make a point of listening to the next NSS newsletter. As far as I'm concerned, it worries me that a person wishing to be the PM of this country is not aware that, even if she believes a God exists, it does nothing that would distinguish life from what it is without a God.
 

The world will never be a paradise, since that, like all gods, is an idea which is a product of the evolved human brain's imagination.

I believe I mentioned Secular humanists and their fellow travellers.
Personalities aside and I think when we are considering the personalities who may be PM who are pitching their political and spiritual resumes at a constituency.....Brexit, as you seem to have missed is about 52% versus 48%. It is about swathes of people in what is ostensibly a secular society who haave a fear of foreigners. It is about permissive racism and I guess about intellectualism vying with antiintellectualism with chauvinism on both sides.

It gives lie to the secular and Dawkinsian notion of inevitable social, political, scientific and moral  progress supposedly unleashed after the enlightenment.

To see this as a problem of anything other than nationalism and globalism is to fail to see the issues.

More important for this site is that the idea of a majority and unifying moral zeitgeist has seriously been called into question by a 52-48 split.

[Hope]

Interesting article on the BBC website regarding previous Prime Ministerial resignations and departures.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36779083

Note the reason given for the 1975 referendum under harold Wilson:

Wilson surprised everyone when he resigned in March 1976, saying that he had lost interest in the grind of day-to-day politics. Since coming to power for a second time in 1974, he had held a referendum on the UK's membership of the European Economic Community - in an effort to avoid a split through the middle of his Labour Party - and seen a collapse in the value of the pound. Wilson later told BBC journalists he thought MI5 had been trying to undermine him.

Labour seem to have been where the Tories are now several decades earlier.

[Brownie]

And then she might ban Diwali and replace it by a special day early in November when we shall light fires and let off fireworks to celebrate her rescue of Parliament from the Bremainers (who will be burnt on the fires).

In effigy only!  The 'common' kids would make them, dressed in discarded red, white and blue clothes, put them in discarded shopping trollies and stand with them on street corners asking passers by for spare euros.

[Nearly Sane]

In effigy only!  The 'common' kids would make them, dressed in discarded red, white and blue clothes, put them in discarded shopping trollies and stand with them on street corners asking passers by for spare euros.

And raise money by asking for a farthing for the Farage.

[Brownie]

Indeed, very English!  Farage and Boris masks would be a great feature, Boris easy to make with lots of straw on top.

[Nearly Sane]

Brexit means Brexit but what does Brexit mean? Let's have a brainstorm.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37219143

[L.A.]

Brexit means Brexit but what does Brexit mean? Let's have a brainstorm.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37219143

If ever we needed a strong competent opposition pressing the government in the right direction it's right now - and what have we got? . .  .a 1970's tribute act that would have us emulate Venezuela .

[Jack Knave]

Brexit means Brexit but what does Brexit mean? Let's have a brainstorm.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37219143

If May is going to be that clear then we can't trust anything she says.

[Jack Knave]

If ever we needed a strong competent opposition pressing the government in the right direction it's right now - and what have we got? . .  .a 1970's tribute act that would have us emulate Venezuela .

That's right we need UKIP to push the government to a full brexit. 

[Nearly Sane]

That's right we need UKIP to push the government to a full brexit. 

pity they only have 1 MP. Of course they might have avoided that if they had consistently campaigned for OR but they like the 2 party system

[Nearly Sane]

If ever we needed a strong competent opposition pressing the government in the right direction it's right now - and what have we got? . .  .a 1970's tribute act that would have us emulate Venezuela .

of course it might be more useful to have a govt that was useful rather than rely on an opposition to make it so, or indeed as you did previously claim that the govt's plans on Hunan Rights to enact a policy from the manifesto was somehow a plant comment made by the opposition. Which at least if they did that would surely show them as borderline Machiavellian. The actions of the govt are theirs, and your obsession with blaming the Labour Party is bizarre. Inept as they are , Corbyn and the Labour Party are not responsible for the actions of the govt.

[Jack Knave]

pity they only have 1 MP. Of course they might have avoided that if they had consistently campaigned for OR but they like the 2 party system

That wasn't the point of the post I replied to nor my reply.

[Nearly Sane]

That wasn't the point of the post I replied to nor my reply.

you implied UKIP could be an opposition. I was just pointing out factually wrong in part because they have supported the two party system

[Jack Knave]

you implied UKIP could be an opposition. I was just pointing out factually wrong in part because they have supported the two party system

Some one said that the Tories need a good opposition as Labour are shit. I said UKIP would be a good opposition. The fact they can't be because of the reality of the situation is besides the point - they would make a good opposition in getting full Brexit.

[jeremyp]

Some one said that the Tories need a good opposition as Labour are shit. I said UKIP would be a good opposition.

But UKIP has only one MP and problems selecting a competent leader. Plus they are a bunch of racist twats.

[Nearly Sane]

Some one said that the Tories need a good opposition as Labour are shit. I said UKIP would be a good opposition. The fact they can't be because of the reality of the situation is besides the point - they would make a good opposition in getting full Brexit.

which given that is current govt policy is not exactly opposition

[L.A.]

of course it might be more useful to have a govt that was useful rather than rely on an opposition to make it so, or indeed as you did previously claim that the govt's plans on Hunan Rights to enact a policy from the manifesto was somehow a plant comment made by the opposition. Which at least if they did that would surely show them as borderline Machiavellian. The actions of the govt are theirs, and your obsession with blaming the Labour Party is bizarre. Inept as they are , Corbyn and the Labour Party are not responsible for the actions of the govt.

I am unhappy with this government in a great many ways , but they appear to be pretty safe as long as the Corbynistas rule Labour.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Some one said that the Tories need a good opposition as Labour are shit. I said UKIP would be a good opposition. The fact they can't be because of the reality of the situation is besides the point - they would make a good opposition in getting full Brexit.

But UKIP are in the same boat as labour. Just like labour are left but aren't sure what that means and therefore split asunder, so are UKIP unsure of what Brexit means outside some slogans.
I'm afraid just like the writing being on the wall for future of EU membership in the European 2014 elections It was the election of Mark Reckless in Rochester when UKIP voters interviewed said that he would not be there in 2015 because it was a general election.

They are at least as factionalised as labour and just don't have it to displace the tories.
They have of course the huge problem of being an alliance of the have nots and wealthy social Darwinians. I suppose what unites all of them is the right to stain other peoples lives, livelihoods and lifestyles.