Author Topic: Books  (Read 47356 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Books
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2015, 09:41:20 AM »
Another couple of books I have been reminded of:

Q by 'Luther Blissett' - a huge picaresque chocolate box epic on some if the incidents, wars and characters of the Reformation


2666 by Roberto Bolano - deep musings on literature and the culture of killing in Mexico, like a cross between Ellroy and Borges

jeremyp

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Re: Books
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2015, 11:42:27 PM »

You've convinced yourself that there isn't. It wouldn't matter if I wrote page after page, in your stiffneckedness you still would not acknowledgeit it. You have a veil upon your heart.


Come on, one clear mention of Jesus.  That's all I ask.

Quote
http://www.pravmir.com/article_1224.html

You can't just look up references to mysterious people and pretend they are Jesus.

Quote
And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant…
And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord…
And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place”.


That's supposed to be Jesus because Abraham refers to one of them as "Lord" is it?  Surely, it's Lord Sugar and this is an early episode of the Apprentice.

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ad_orientem

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Re: Books
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2015, 06:55:04 AM »
It's a theophany. The three angels are the three persons of the Most Holy Trinity.
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Shaker

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Re: Books
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2015, 07:31:33 PM »
The 8 books thread recently got me thinking along similar but slightly different lines: in the spirit of Desert Island Discs, what would be the books that I would want to have with me as a castaway on a desert island, the bare minimum of absolutely essential tomes that I wouldn't want to do without?

I don't think and don't claim these are books that everybody has to read or books that you have to read to consider yourself intelligent or anything as snottily prescriptive as that; it's just a list of (some of) those books which have meant and mean the most to me and from which I've continually drawn inspiration and, maybe, wisdom; the minimal books I'd want to keep me going on my island.

This needless to say is a first draft  ;)

Like Desert Island Discs I’m going to take the complete works of Shakespeare and The Bible (King James/Authorized Version only) as a given — as far as the Bible’s concerned there’s some great human wisdom in it (predominantly in the Old Testament buried of course amongst a great deal of tedious dross) expressed in majestic English. The 1662 Book of Common Prayer as well, also for the English rather than the contents.

Friedrich Nietzsche: Thus Spoke Zarathustra — in some ways a one-stop compendium of Nietzsche’s philosophical ideas, hugely readable (to me at any rate). I found him early and have never ceased to regard Freddy the 'Tache as one of the greatest, most powerful, subtlest and most profound minds this planet has ever seen, with something original and brilliant to say on just about every subject to which he bent his pen and whose major works I re-read every eighteen months to two years or so. I think this is probably the one of Nietzsche’s works that I would choose if I really had to whittle it down to just the one, but if it was option I’d have the whole lot (perhaps minus The Birth of Tragedy, his earliest and least representative book, and Ecce Homo which is a sort of intellectual memoir).

Arthur Schopenhauer: Essays and Aphorisms (Penguin title) — while Schopenhauer’s main work was the one translated into English as The World As Will and Representation or The World as Will and Idea, a hard-going book that he published early in life and carried on refining and revising for the rest of his days, this consists of selections from the Parerga und Paralipomena, his shorter, punchier pieces, beautifully clear, readable everyday philosophy — religion (he didn’t like it), suffering (he was against it), animals (he loved them), women (not a fan) and so forth.

Seneca: Letters From a Stoic (Penguin title) — thoughtful wisdom for life from an acute and humane Roman Stoic thinker.

Marcus Aurelius: Meditations — see as for Seneca, also a Stoic. Elegant, noble ideas from a great mind. Meditations has always been the English title: originally it was simply a commonplace book in which Marcus jotted down random thoughts and observations and which he titled To Himself.

The three-volume boxed-set of the Dhammapada, the Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads translated by Eknath Easwaran — because I’ve always been interested in Eastern philosophies.

A Thomas Paine Reader (Penguin title) — or any other compendium which contains at least The Rights of Man, Common Sense and the first part of The Age of Reason. A, to me, unarguable defence of liberty, democracy and free-thinking.

John Stuart Mill: On Liberty — the ‘Bible’ of classical liberalism (libertarianism in the now old-fashioned British sense, before the colonials hijacked it to mean something considerably different) and a defence of the supremacy of individual rights.

Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels: The Communist Manifesto — the shortest exposition of anti-capitalist ideas and a defence of the working class. Volume One of Capital as well if we’re going to be thorough.

Richard Dawkins: The Blind Watchmaker — that clichéd thing, a genuinely life-changing book, the book that made evolution ‘click’ for me, the book that explained how evolution actually works. Of all Dawkins’s works the single greatest is I think The Extended Phenotype but that’s a quite difficult, pretty technical, hard-going book that straddles the boundary between being published as popular science but also aimed at professionals. Of his layman-aimed works TBW remains I think the greatest. I did think about going back to source and including Darwin’s Origin of Species, which is a world-changing book, a beautiful read in often lovely, stately prose; but evolution is by definition a constantly-changing field and I think it's as well to stay relatively current.

John Keats: Collected Letters — W. H. Auden wondered if Keats was a greater letter writer even than he was a poet. I wonder that too. I think he may very well have been.

The Oxford Book of English Verse — rather than a great many different Collected Poems by different poets, may as well have a shallow but broad anthology covering the best part of a thousand years of English poetry. That said I couldn’t and want to do without the collected poems of at least A. E. Housman; Edward Thomas; Philip Larkin as well.

The Oxford English Dictionary — the huge and extremely heavy one-volume full micrograph edition if need be (plus a very good magnifying glass, in that case). Still the most expensive single book I’ve ever bought, albeit fifteen-odd years ago when it was a steal at £60.00. Great for reference, terrible for curling up with for an evening's browsing with a nice bottle of something - the Shorter OED is good for that  :)

The Encyclopedia Brittanica — the last print version was published in 2010; from then on it’s been and will be available only in digital format, so while I’d personally rather have the print version (all thirty-two beautiful volumes ...), I suppose I’d make do with the DVD-ROM and a decent laptop at a pinch if I really had to.

I know that fiction is notable by its absence but then I’ve always been much more of a one for non-fiction. If I had the choice I’d have to throw in obvious classics such as War and Peace (to my great surprise, not a dull read at all but an absolute page-turner; it’s just very, very, very, very, very long, and I only managed to get about three-quarters of the way through); Great Expectations (Dickens’s finest, in my view); The Great Gatsby; and to my mind what is the greatest work of fiction ever created by any human mind, James Joyce’s Ulysses albeit only in the edition I have which is the annotated student’s editions which more than doubles the actual length of the novel itself with notes which explain exactly what Joyce was about and making explicit his plan for the book. For sheer sentimental value I’d also throw in the books which were dearly loved by me and tremendously important when I was a kid, books I still re-read regularly now — I mean children’s classics like The Wind in the Willows, like Treasure Island and (more recent) Penelope Lively’s The Ghost of Thomas Kempe.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 07:37:03 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Gordon

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Re: Books
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2015, 09:15:24 PM »
Your list is way to serious for me as holidays reads, mainly I suppose because we always have our grand-kids with us so settling down for a 'proper' read is almost impossible, since they always want to do stuff (the inconsiderate little sods)  :)

So, for my holiday reading I usually take the opportunity to re-read old favourites that I can lift and lay without getting too annoyed about interruptions: this year's selection includes Great Expectations, 1984 and I Claudius/Claudius the God.

That's the plan anyway! 

Just to add I have no idea why my reply is about holiday reading, which wasn't really what you were asking  - must have been the Desert Island imagery.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 09:54:30 PM by Gordon »

torridon

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Re: Books
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2015, 09:43:59 PM »
M1 A cracking reading list, that.  I'll have them when you've finished with them.

Hope

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Re: Books
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2015, 08:51:54 AM »
I certainly wouldn't take the AV/King James Version; I'd probably take the Message or the New International Version.  However, if the KJV was mandatory, I'd also take one of the modern versions as one of my discretionary books.

John Locke: Two Treatises of Government  It's a long time since I read this - though I only pulled it off the shelf the day before yesterday planning to reread it soon.

Marx and Engels: The Communist Manifesto I have always been intrigued by how closely much of this parallels the early part of Acts.

George Herbert: One of the 'Complete Works' editions.  I have long been impressed by the poetic and physical form of many of his poems.  I've still got the copy of one collection which I studied for 'A'-level English Literature.

J.R.R. Tolkien:  The Lord of the Rings  I could read this numerous times (though an omnibus edition with The Hobbit would be brilliant).

Victor Hugo: Les Miserables  As often is the case, novels give a fascinating insight into human nature and psyche.  Unfortunately, I don't speak/read French, so it would have to be an English translation.

The Oxford English Dictionary  I wouldn't mind the full (24-volume) edition, but would settle for a 2-volumer.

Richard Price: Observations on the Nature of Civil Liberty, the Principles of Government, and the Justice and Policy of the War with America  As someone who clearly thought through his Christian faith, Price's ideas spread across the world, to the extent that some are embedded in the American Declaration of Independence.

Like Shaker, I'd probably then have to take either Kenneth Grahame's Wind in the Willows or the collected Winnie the Pooh material.


A book on 'Desert Island' horticulture.  I have no idea whether one actually exists, but I would want one to give me pointers as to how best to cultivate whatever was indigenous to the island!!
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

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Rhiannon

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Re: Books
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2015, 09:31:57 AM »
I find Desert Island lists problematic - if I really were on a desert island I'd want really enjoyable fiction to lose myself in rather than non- fiction which I would either like to try out or discuss with someone. I like Hope's idea of some kind of local guide to flora, and possibly fauna - is that snake the one whose venom will kill me instantlyor the one that will take a few days? - but otherwise I'd want to forget I was on an island at all.

With that in mind...

The Camomile Lawn by Mary Wesley

A Shardlake novel by CJ Sansom - can't pick which

Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte

Death Comes as the End by Agatha Christie

A Murder is Announced by Agatha Christie

The Killings at Badgers Drift by Caroline Graham

Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkien

Complete works - Shakespeare

(Predictable one on the end there but today it really would be one of my choices)







jeremyp

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Re: Books
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2015, 10:38:42 AM »
Gödel Escher Bach:  an Eternal Golden Braid - DR Hofstadter,

The Complete Works of Saki - HH Munro

The Decipherment of Linear B - J Chadwick

Climbing Mount Improbable - R Dawkins

Raising Steam - Pt Pratchett

The Player of Games - IM Banks

The Cyberiad - S Lem

What is the Name of this Book - RM Smullyan

The Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkein

I recognise that is nine books, but the last one is only there for toilet paper.

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wigginhall

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Re: Books
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2015, 10:56:07 AM »
Shaker's list is awesome.  If it's really a desert island, I would probably take a bunch of thrillers.  If it means your favourite books, a couple of Jane Austens, a couple of Chandlers, then I go blank.  Oh yes, my bird books and wild flower books.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 10:57:51 AM by wigginhall »
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horsethorn

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Re: Books
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2015, 11:02:41 AM »
Just want to throw in a note of appreciation for "The Decipherment of Linear B - J Chadwick". A fascinating story - and it would give you something to work on while on the island! :)

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Rhiannon

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Re: Books
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2015, 11:11:02 AM »
Gödel Escher Bach:  an Eternal Golden Braid - DR Hofstadter,

The Complete Works of Saki - HH Munro

The Decipherment of Linear B - J Chadwick

Climbing Mount Improbable - R Dawkins

Raising Steam - Pt Pratchett

The Player of Games - IM Banks

The Cyberiad - S Lem

What is the Name of this Book - RM Smullyan

The Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkein

I recognise that is nine books, but the last one is only there for toilet paper.

Oh go on, you really have a secret yearning to don some latex pointy ears and spend your weekend pretending to be an elf.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Books
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2015, 11:27:12 AM »
I have been giving some thought to this since I saw the thread originally. Shaker has explained his penchant for non-fiction very well. I probably can’t do as well at explaining  my near total devotion to fiction other than to say it has long been my temporary escape and sanctuary from the travails of life. That sounds too grand. You know the day to day shitty stuff that crops up far too often.
Anyway here goes:

1.   The Moonstone – Wilkie Collins – almost single-handedly inventing the classic English detective novel. But also a very well written novel that transcends the genre – although it wasn’t really a genre at the time it was published!

2.   Martin Chuzzlewit – Charles Dickens – my personal favourite of his novels – although only by a fraction over some of his other works. I think this is by far his funniest novel and also sharpest. This on the USA and slavery: “Liberty pulls down her cap upon her eyes, and owns oppression in it’s vilest aspect for her sister”. Satirical about both England and the USA he did not pull his punches.

3.   On Beulah Height – Reginald Hill. Some of you will already be aware that I am somewhat addicted to this authors work. This is one of the best examples – the mix of humour (sometimes gallows in nature) and  sadness combined with a brilliant narrative drive and exquisite characterisation makes this unputdownable for me. Ian Rankin (another favourite) said of this: “ranks as his best yet, Hill’s novels are really dances to the music of time”.

4.   London Triptych – Jonathan Kemp. A novel set in three different time periods about London’s homosexual  underworld. Squalid, strange, very sad – but shows how much things have changed – and is brilliantly realised.

5.   Childhood’s End – Arthur C. Clarke. On the list because this was the first science fiction book that I really took seriously. It opened my eyes to a whole universe of possibilities. Which I have been dipping into ever since.

6.   Charles Dickens – A Life – Claire Tomalin. The only non-fiction work on my list – but about my favourite author. It is as far as I can see the definitive biography. You feel as if you are there. Utterly, utterly brilliant. And I speak as someone who thought that Peter Ackroyd’s biography was pretty special.

7.   A Room With a View – E M Forster. OK I came to this via the film – but still a great book.

8.    The Kraken Wakes – John Wyndham. Again science fiction – ish. As a 14 year old it struck me as more horror than sci-fi – but Wyndham’s writing is good and evokes post war England brilliantly. I am fond of all his work.

Just to say that I would also squeeze in “Wind in the Willows” if I could. Still re-read it to this day.

Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Shaker

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Re: Books
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2015, 12:06:47 PM »
Have just thought of another one and it's actually a novel - Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes, easily the saddest book I've ever read.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 12:14:22 PM by Shaker »
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Samuel

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Re: Books
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2015, 01:48:11 PM »
The Oxford English Dictionary — the huge and extremely heavy one-volume full micrograph edition if need be (plus a very good magnifying glass, in that case). Still the most expensive single book I’ve ever bought, albeit fifteen-odd years ago when it was a steal at £60.00. Great for reference, terrible for curling up with for an evening's browsing with a nice bottle of something - the Shorter OED is good for that  :)

Shaker, I like you're style but I don't have a choice, from now this is how I'm going to have to imagine you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECSG3RYWY30
A lot of people don't believe that the loch ness monster exists. Now, I don't know anything about zooology, biology, geology, herpetology, evolutionary theory, evolutionary biology, marine biology, cryptozoology, palaeontology or archaeology... but I think... what if a dinosaur got into the lake?

Gonnagle

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Re: Books
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2015, 01:57:55 PM »
Dear Jeremyp,

Quote
Raising Steam - Pt Pratchett

Why that particular one, are you a steam train buff.

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Gonnagle

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Re: Books
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2015, 02:00:06 PM »
Dear Mods,

You have the Shakers permission ;)

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Books
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2015, 02:03:31 PM »
Not at all! I thought about adding it to the 8 books thread but didn't as I thought the emphasis was different, but you merge away Gonners :)

Dear mods, I wonder if the way to do it would be to (a) merge the threads, (b) change the title so that it has 8 books/Desert Island Books or even just Books as title? As a possible (c) there is a bit of derailing on the 8 books thread that could be pruned but that isn't the main point.

Rhiannon

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Re: Books
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2015, 02:07:59 PM »
On Beulah Height - bloody marvellous book.

jeremyp

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Re: Books
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2015, 09:00:40 PM »
Dear Jeremyp,

Quote
Raising Steam - Pt Pratchett

Why that particular one, are you a steam train buff.

Gonnagle.

I am limited to eight books.  I can't take all the Disc World novels and I've only read that one once. 
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SweetPea

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Re: Books
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2015, 09:57:36 PM »
For the time being....

Precious Bane ~ Mary Webb

Gentian Hill ~ Elizabeth Goudge (Rhiannon, if you haven't read this one, I'm sure you'd enjoy it.... if it's still in print, though Amazon would probably come up with a copy.)

Anything by Wilbur Smith.... The Seventh Scroll is probably a favourite

The Hidden Messages in Water ~ Dr Masaru Emoto
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

Nearly Sane

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Re: Books
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2015, 08:20:25 PM »

No comments on the various political machinations on Fox hunting but this and its follow ups are good

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoirs_of_a_Fox-Hunting_Man

Anchorman

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Re: Books
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2015, 09:32:58 PM »
My choice?

If I could ditch Shakespeare in favour of the complete works of Burns, and the Bible in the 2011 New International Study version,
my choice for the eight (at the moment) would be
1. The Edinburgh history of Scotland (4 vol, Edinburgh University press)
2. The Oxford history of Ancient Egypt (OUP,2003)
3. The Lord of the Rings.
4. The Sacred Diaries of Adrian Plass.  (Hilarity with theology shoved in as an afterthought)
5. Night Watch (or any other Vimes strand Terry pratchett novel)
6. A drunk man looks at the thistle, and other poems (my well thumbed copy of McDairmid is wearing thin)
7 The Hiding Place trilogy, by Corrie Ten Boom. (I'll need inspiration)
8. In Bed with an Elephant (Ludovic Kennedy)
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Nearly Sane

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Re: Books
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2015, 10:04:05 PM »
I have to admit I find choosing Burns baffling, but replacing Shakespeare with him just beyond comprehension. I would rather have Garioch than Burns and Soutar than McDairmid but always Shakespeare

Anchorman

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Re: Books
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2015, 10:07:44 PM »
I have to admit I find choosing Burns baffling, but replacing Shakespeare with him just beyond comprehension. I would rather have Garioch than Burns and Soutar than McDairmid but always Shakespeare


-
Actually, I prefer Fergusson or Hogg to Burns - but the complete works include his many letters, which give a fascinating insight into the man who was very far from the 'heaven taught ploughman'.

As far as Shakspear goes, I have my second year English teacher to thank for not appreciating him.
I recieved six of the tawse for informing him  that Macbeth was little more than political fantasy, and I would not write a critique on it.
Second year English was not my favourite subject that year.....

I chose McDairmid because I realised none of my books had politics as their theme (yes, I know Kennedy was a Liberal, but if you've read 'In bed...' you'll see that party politics are absent)
Whatever Mcdairmid was, the one thing you can say about him was that he was most definately political.
Raving mad, but political.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 10:23:42 PM by Anchorman »
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."