Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

Pretty ghastly thing to say to someone, especially the dig about grandchildren.  Wow, Christianity as a kind of gulag.

To be fair to Sass, she is just trying to give an example of what the the consequences (not punishment) may be if we refuse to accept the offer of eternal salvation.  It is the power of evil which separates us from God, and ultimately from true happiness.

[Sebastian Toe]

I agree with you, Susan.  Muslims are generally forbidden to even read the Christian Bible, so I would not have been given much freedom in that situation.  But having been able to compare the Christian religion to Islam have no doubts as to which is closer to the truth.

..but would you have done the same in reverse if you had been brought up within Islam?
Probably!

[Brownie]

To be fair to Sass, she is just trying to give an example of what the the consequences (not punishment) may be if we refuse to accept the offer of eternal salvation.  It is the power of evil which separates us from God, and ultimately from true happiness.

Alan, not everyone consciously or actively refuses the offer of eternal salvation.  Indeed, if a person is sure about it, they will not refuse it.   There are plenty who just cannot believe, despite plenty of trying and searching.  No-one can believe what they can't believe!  They are not digging their heels in and being stubborn.  It's just not there.

[torridon]

To be fair to Sass, she is just trying to give an example of what the the consequences (not punishment) may be if we refuse to accept the offer of eternal salvation.  It is the power of evil which separates us from God, and ultimately from true happiness.

This is just one more reminder that you have not addressed a core contradiction at the heart of your thinking - if there is an all-powerful deity that created all things, then 'the power of evil that separates us from true happiness' is only there at all because God wills it so. Your rationale is incoherent.

[Alan Burns]

This is just one more reminder that you have not addressed a core contradiction at the heart of your thinking - if there is an all-powerful deity that created all things, then 'the power of evil that separates us from true happiness' is only there at all because God wills it so. Your rationale is incoherent.

But the reality I see is that evil does have power.  God had to suffer, die and be resurrected to defeat evil and open up the way to heaven.  I admit that I do not see the big picture, but I accept Jesus as my saviour.

[Alan Burns]

God did not create evil, He created beings with free will rather than puppets or robots, and I presume that evil was an unwanted consequence from this.

[Nearly Sane]

But the reality I see is that evil does have power.  God had to suffer, die and be resurrected to defeat evil and open up the way to heaven.  I admit that I do not see the big picture, but I accept Jesus as my saviour.

evil has power because your god gave evil that power, why are you representing a god that you want to shift the lakefront in a duplicitous way?

[Shaker]

But the reality I see is that evil does have power.

More power than God, apparently.

[Nearly Sane]

God did not create evil, He created beings with free will, and I presume that evil was an unwanted consequence from this.

how can an omniscient being have unwanted consequences?

[Shaker]

God did not create evil, He created beings with free will, and I presume that evil was an unwanted consequence from this.

There's nothing unwanted with an omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent entity though is there?

[Gordon]

God did not create evil, He created beings with free will, and I presume that evil was an unwanted consequence from this.

So, do you think that perhaps God didn't get it quite right?

See these 'omni' supernatural agents: you just can't depend on them not to fuck up!

[Rhiannon]

God did not create evil, He created beings with free will rather than puppets or robots, and I presume that evil was an unwanted consequence from this.

So to get out of it he executed his son, but only to save people who agree that's a sensible proposition?

[Alan Burns]

how can an omniscient being have unwanted consequences?

Because by definition, free will can go against God's will

[Andy]

God did not create evil, He created beings with free will, and I presume that evil was an unwanted consequence from this.

By saying that a god didn't create evil, you're saying that when this god is without beings with free will, there is nothing that isn't good. How does this god perceive itself in a moral context when there were no beings with free will?

[Alan Burns]

So to get out of it he executed his son, but only to save people who agree that's a sensible proposition?

No - it was the evil in this world which executed His son.

[Shaker]

Because by definition, free will can go against God's will

So there's at least one thing that's more powerful than the will of God.

How many more are there?

[Khatru]

But the reality I see is that evil does have power.  God had to suffer, die and be resurrected to defeat evil and open up the way to heaven.  I admit that I do not see the big picture, but I accept Jesus as my saviour.

If this is what your god had to do to defeat evil then he's not omnipotent.

[Rhiannon]

No - it was the evil in this world which executed His son.

Which God couldn't stop?

That still doesn't address why God only saves his followers if evil is an unintended consequence of his actions. That hardly seems fair.

[Nearly Sane]

Because by definition, free will can go against God's will

against maybe, but out with of omniscience,no, unless you think prophecy is impossible? If you think prophecy works, then free will is impossible, if you think free will is possible, prophecy isn't.

[Nearly Sane]

God did not create evil, He created beings with free will rather than puppets or robots, and I presume that evil was an unwanted consequence from this.

How can an omniscient being have an unwanted consequence? If such a being has unwanted consequences then it can get fucked up thearse and Satan can win.

[Leonard James]

So there's at least one thing that's more powerful than the will of God.

How many more are there?

Clearly the ability to reason of non-believers is more powerful than both "God" and the "Devil".

[torridon]

God had to suffer, die and be resurrected to defeat evil and open up the way to heaven.

But by your own claims, he didn't succeed in defeating evil; despite all that suffering and dieing, evil is still alive and well and messing with people's heads, just as before. The image you paint is of a desperate, failing God; whatever happened to 'almighty' ?

God did not create evil, He created beings with free will rather than puppets or robots, and I presume that evil was an unwanted consequence from this.

You often explain people's inability to 'see the light', or 'accept Jesus' as a consequence of evil. Inability to see the logic in this theology does not relate to free will in any way.  If I cannot comprehend the incomprehensible or believe the unbelievable I cannot be blamed for that as if I were somehow 'free' in the matter; I have no choice

[Sebastian Toe]

God had to suffer, die and be resurrected to defeat evil

..failed then?

[Alan Burns]

You often explain people's inability to 'see the light', or 'accept Jesus' as a consequence of evil. Inability to see the logic in this theology does not relate to free will in any way.  If I cannot comprehend the incomprehensible or believe the unbelievable I cannot be blamed for that as if I were somehow 'free' in the matter; I have no choice

And I have tried to illustrate that while there may be no definite proof, there is overwhelming evidence of God's existence.  When you are called to account for your life on this earth, will you be able to say with all honesty that you did not see the evidence?

[Shaker]

And I have tried to illustrate that while there may be no definite proof, there is overwhelming evidence of God's existence.

If you've tried it's been a miserable failure. I've only ever seen a constant parade of logical fallacy and flat assertion. What's this "overwhelming evidence" supposed to be, exactly, and who is it supposed to overwhelm?

When you are called to account for your life on this earth

Don't believe this for a second.

will you be able to say with all honesty that you did not see the evidence?

Yes.

Wishful thinking aplenty.

Logical fallacies of one kind or another, alias poor reasoning, in spades.

Psychological need/desire explicable by psychology, anthropology, etc. by the lorryload.

See all those.

Evidence for gods, zilch.