Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3880567 times)

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16325 on: April 05, 2017, 08:36:12 AM »
If you have nothing to contribute..... don't.

It hasn't stopped you contributing has it Vlad? I thought you were giving up this forum for Lent? ;D

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16326 on: April 05, 2017, 08:36:37 AM »
That last sentence is such utter rubbish  that I don't know how you have the gall to write it .... well, I do know, I suppose, it's what you do quite a lot!!
I take it you agree with the first two sentences then. They are hard to refute and well never see the refutation anyway because it will have been lodged in the past before one of the spring cleans no doubt.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16327 on: April 05, 2017, 08:42:27 AM »
It hasn't stopped you contributing has it Vlad? I thought you were giving up this forum for Lent? ;D
A good idea that I am still mulling however one is also duty bound to challenge fundamentalist antitheist bollocks.

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16328 on: April 05, 2017, 08:44:28 AM »
A good idea that I am still mulling however one is also duty bound to challenge fundamentalist antitheist bollocks.

When, and where, do you hope to find some to challenge?

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16329 on: April 05, 2017, 08:50:13 AM »
When, and where, do you hope to find some to challenge?
The clue is in the words ''antitheist bollocks'' Gordon.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16330 on: April 05, 2017, 08:50:51 AM »
A good idea that I am still mulling however one is also duty bound to challenge fundamentalist antitheist bollocks.

Take a break dear, and review your strategy. Your challenges don't impinge on the thinking of us non believers as you might as well be talking in Double Dutch for all the sense they make!  ;D

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16331 on: April 05, 2017, 08:53:51 AM »
Take a break dear, and review your strategy. Your challenges don't impinge on the thinking of us non believers as you might as well be talking in Double Dutch for all the sense they make!  ;D
I think given the rage they stir up in the antitheist fraternity and the subsequent resort to ad hominem..................... they do hit home.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16332 on: April 05, 2017, 08:59:29 AM »
I think given the rage they stir up in the antitheist fraternity and the subsequent resort to ad hominem..................... they do hit home.

They don't stir up rage, just a feeling of sorrow for one who is so confused! ;D

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16333 on: April 05, 2017, 09:00:15 AM »
Take a break dear, and review your strategy.
I've often said that no clever argument from me is going to make any Christians.
But assumptions can and need to be challenged on an intellectual level. Particularly the intellectual slovenliness of antitheists, who, as reasonable atheists have pointed out are an embarrassment.


torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16334 on: April 05, 2017, 09:00:29 AM »
Purely philosophical as is your position and the fact that science always offers us reduced models. Please don't guff on about the virtues of science since there is always the danger with you guys that you extol values to it which are not actually derivable from science.

Your enquiry itself is derived from the philosophy that there is only matter/energy and that particular philosophy is based on a circular argument.
Even the term ''secondary stuff'' seems based on that assumption.

I notice that you demand evidence here....what about string theory and multiverse which you guys are prepared to except without evidence but which seems OK to you merely on the grounds that it is non divine?

That looks like smoke and mirrors designed to avoid answering the question posed. Let's try again, this time without the guff please :

What's the evidence for your assertion that there are two stuffs ?

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16335 on: April 05, 2017, 09:01:08 AM »
That looks like smoke and mirrors designed to avoid answering the question posed. Let's try again, this time without the guff please :

What's the evidence for your assertion that there are two stuffs ?
It's been given.

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16336 on: April 05, 2017, 09:01:19 AM »
The clue is in the words ''antitheist bollocks'' Gordon.

I know - I just wondered if, and where, you'd encountered any to challenge.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16337 on: April 05, 2017, 09:01:57 AM »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16338 on: April 05, 2017, 09:18:53 AM »
Where ?
I have stated that my objections to you are philosophical just as your definition of evidence is based on a philosophy. Unfortunately there isn't the evidence for that philosophy :'(. Above and beyond that we know that science never affords more than models which by definition are reductions.

Other than that any other objections are mere antitheistic slipperiness.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16339 on: April 05, 2017, 09:28:11 AM »
Vlad it just goes to show that your posts aren't doing what you intend!

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16340 on: April 05, 2017, 09:49:06 AM »
Vlad it just goes to show that your posts aren't doing what you intend!
Well you know what i'm going to say Floo........You can lead a horse to water etc.....

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16341 on: April 05, 2017, 10:34:42 AM »
Well you know what i'm going to say Floo........You can lead a horse to water etc.....

You aren't leading anyone to water as your posts don't make any sense.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16342 on: April 05, 2017, 10:40:22 AM »
I have stated that my objections to you are philosophical just as your definition of evidence is based on a philosophy. Unfortunately there isn't the evidence for that philosophy :'(. Above and beyond that we know that science never affords more than models which by definition are reductions.

Other than that any other objections are mere antitheistic slipperiness.

So by your thinking it would be antitheistic slipperiness to counter claims that the universe is surrounded by a halo of undetectable divine pink blancmange.  You make claims, it is up to you to justify them, not just indulge a fog of ism's calculated to imply that those of us who value evidence as a guide to epistemic truth are somehow wanting. In a post-truth world it is more important than ever to call out the bullshitters, the conspiracy theorists and assorted fakes. Don't be one of them, you can be better than that.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16343 on: April 05, 2017, 11:02:38 AM »
Vlad,

Quote
Purely philosophical as is your position and the fact that science always offers us reduced models. Please don't guff on about the virtues of science since there is always the danger with you guys that you extol values to it which are not actually derivable from science.

What “philosophy” do you think supports your conjecture about extra “stuff”?

Quote
Your enquiry itself is derived from the philosophy that there is only matter/energy and that particular philosophy is based on a circular argument.

Even the term ''secondary stuff'' seems based on that assumption.

Stop lying. The “philosophy” to which you refer is actually just the working assumption that the material is all there is. If you want to pouffe into existence something else though, but all means come up with some philosophy of your own that would support it.

Quote
I notice that you demand evidence here....what about string theory and multiverse which you guys are prepared to except without evidence but which seems OK to you merely on the grounds that it is non divine?

Nope. String theory etc are hypotheses that may or may not turn out to be correct pending further investigation. You on the other hand assert “God” as a fact. Not only do you have nothing to support that assertion, but the definitional problems with the term “God” mean that – in scientific terms – it would be called not even wrong.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 11:22:09 AM by bluehillside »
"Don't make me come down there."

God

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16344 on: April 05, 2017, 11:04:55 AM »
torri,

Quote
In a post-truth world it is more important than ever to call out the bullshitters, the conspiracy theorists and assorted fakes. Don't be one of them, you can be better than that.

I admire your optimism.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16345 on: April 05, 2017, 11:06:32 AM »
Vlad,

Quote
I take it you agree with the first two sentences then. They are hard to refute and well never see the refutation anyway because it will have been lodged in the past before one of the spring cleans no doubt.

They're simple to refute, and I just did so in Reply 16345.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16346 on: April 05, 2017, 11:07:43 AM »
Vlad,

Quote
It's been given.

Stop lying.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16347 on: April 05, 2017, 11:58:19 AM »
The “philosophy” to which you refer is actually just the working assumption that the material is all there is.
Were that all there was to it rather than it unavoidably being a philosophical position......... working like that would be completely despicable.

Further more it isn't working scientifically because science does not assume that material is all there is.

To spell it out again assuming that material is all there is is philosophical materialism.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16348 on: April 05, 2017, 12:00:23 PM »
In a post-truth world it is more important than ever to call out the bullshitters, the conspiracy theorists and assorted fakes.
I'm glad you appreciate my work here.

Stranger

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #16349 on: April 05, 2017, 12:59:52 PM »
To spell it out again assuming that material is all there is is philosophical materialism.

FFS Vlad - do you never read the replies to this!? Nobody here (that I've read recently) is making that assumption.

Just pay some attention for once in your life!
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))