Searching for GOD...

[bluehillside Retd.]

Shakes,

Bloody hell wiggy 

It's strong stuff, but Wiggs seems to me to be expressing his disgust at AB's smug moral depravity.

If he is, then I agree with him. 

[bluehillside Retd.]

Wiggs,

Frankie Boyle had some thoughtful and interesting things to say about Grenfell in an interview with Owen Jones. I've posted a link in the "West London Fire" discussion.

[Nearly Sane]

Sorry.   I am in a rage about Grenfell, and if anybody starts telling me about God responding to prayer, I feel more rage.  He didn't.

You and I are as one on this. As I get older, I know that the expectation is for more acceptance, but just fuck that. The indulgent mysterious ways for gods and govts merely forgives suffering because they are so ineffectual as to be worthless.

[Dicky Underpants]

How about the children - did he tell them that there would be no more homework after they were dead?

Somehow puts that disgusting line from C.S. Lewis in context, doesn't it? You know, speaking of our earthly life as a preparation for heaven:
"School's over - the holidays have begun!"

[Nearly Sane]

Somehow puts that disgusting line from C.S. Lewis in context, doesn't it? You know, speaking of our earthly life as a preparation for heaven:
"School's over - the holidays have begun!"

And links into to the whole problem of Susan in the Narnia stories. She grew up.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Fallacy Boy,

Been a while since you tried the argumentum ad consequentiam fallacy. Always fun to see it dusted off and tried again by the logically challenged.

Oh, and the point by the way was that the certainty borne of religious belief can override our innate humanity. Look at some of AB’s comments here if you don’t believe me. Convince yourself that “God” wants something, and anything goes – after all, if you kill a few babies along the way that just means they’ll get to meet their maker that much sooner right?

PS I see that, as ever, I’ve corrected you several times today alone and that you’ve just ignored the corrections. Why is that?

PPS How’s that apology to Gordon coming for doctoring a quote and pretending he said it?

Your a fine one to suggest I'm keeping anybody waiting when we have been waiting for years for a definition of morality which does not render the concept meaningless.

[wigginhall]

Somehow puts that disgusting line from C.S. Lewis in context, doesn't it? You know, speaking of our earthly life as a preparation for heaven:
"School's over - the holidays have begun!"

Good grief, I don't remember that one.  It shows the kind of infantile aspect of some religious stuff, as if life is set in boarding school, and it's hard, but never mind, there'll  be hot milk and crumpets for tea.   

[wigginhall]

Wiggs,

Frankie Boyle had some thoughtful and interesting things to say about Grenfell in an interview with Owen Jones. I've posted a link in the "West London Fire" discussion.

Thanks, it's very good.   He is very interesting to listen to.   As Jones says, much better than most of the official media. 

[Alan Burns]

How did he answer prayers made by the people in Grenfell?   I think that some of them were probably praying, and I would think sincerely, as they faced imminent death.   Did God promise them a painfree death, or a place in heaven?  How about the children - did he tell them that there would be no more homework after they were dead?

We can't presume to know how God answers prayers, and we have no idea how many potential tragedies may have been avoided through prayer.  I thank the Lord that such tragedies are rare, and I offer my sincere prayers for all the victims of Grenfell Tower.  Eternal rest give unto them, oh Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them.  May they rest in peace.  Amen.

[wigginhall]

Excuse me, I have to go and be sick. 

[torridon]

I can't do it all on my own.  The reason I am posting here is to share in the gift of faith and the power of prayer.  If more people were to pray in faith this would be a better world.  And we could all look forward to meeting up in Heaven.

You're not really making any plausible sense. Do you really expect us to believe that God is doing some sort of maths, calculating whether a critical mass of prayers has been reached in order to trigger a supernatural intervention ?  Do you imagine if we got a football stadium full of people praying for desperate migrants then we would start to see Libyan orphans being miraculously plucked from the waters and placed on dry land by some mysterious unseen hand ?  You really need to think this miracles business through, you are just floundering around and opening yourself up to ridicule at the moment.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

Your a fine one to suggest I'm keeping anybody waiting when we have been waiting for years for a definition of morality which does not render the concept meaningless.

It’s "you're", and it's some feat to cram so many mistakes into just one sentence.

First, you doctored a quote from Gordon and then tried to attribute it to him. He deserves an apology for that, and your whataboutism (a type of tu quoque fallacy) on an entirely unrelated matter in response is fooling no-one.

Second, you haven’t been waiting for that at all so why even bother lying about it?

Third, even if you had been waiting for it, your alternative (“it’s written in a book I assert to be authoritative”) would be the only version that rendered the concept meaningless – why should anyone take your personal faith beliefs as an objective truth?

So anyway, about that apology you still owe to Gordon…?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Wiggs,

Excuse me, I have to go and be sick.

Join the queue.

[SusanDoris]

As I said previously, I believe God answers all sincere prayers made in faith.

It is quite mind-boggling that you can keep on repeating all this stuff!

[Nearly Sane]

We can't presume to know how God answers prayers, and we have no idea how many potential tragedies may have been avoided through prayer.  I thank the Lord that such tragedies are rare, and I offer my sincere prayers for all the victims of Grenfell Tower.  Eternal rest give unto them, oh Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them.  May they rest in peace.  Amen.

Your god chose for them to burn to death. Your prayers piss on their corpses.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

...and we have no idea how many potential tragedies may have been avoided through prayer.

Yes we have: none. At least that's what the evidence suggests.

[floo]

We can't presume to know how God answers prayers, and we have no idea how many potential tragedies may have been avoided through prayer.  I thank the Lord that such tragedies are rare, and I offer my sincere prayers for all the victims of Grenfell Tower.  Eternal rest give unto them, oh Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them.  May they rest in peace.  Amen.

Such tragedies are rare? Don't you listen to the news AB? If god can prevent them, it should prevent them all!

[Gordon]

We can't presume to know how God answers prayers, and we have no idea how many potential tragedies may have been avoided through prayer.  I thank the Lord that such tragedies are rare, and I offer my sincere prayers for all the victims of Grenfell Tower.  Eternal rest give unto them, oh Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them.  May they rest in peace.  Amen.

The galling thing is, Alan, that your faith blinds you to just how crass this tawdry effort of yours reads in view of recent events. Prayer is pointless and ineffective bollocks, Alan, where the only benefit would appear to be that it makes those doing the praying feel good and holy.

[Rhiannon]

As I said previously, I believe God answers all sincere prayers made in faith.

Like the getout clause there. So some children, babies, mothers, fathers, loved ones, didn't get their prayers for life in Grenfell or the Med heard because they weren't made in sincere faith.

[SusanDoris]

Excuse me, I have to go and be sick.

Yes, this sort of thing is quite nauseating, isn't it.

[Rhiannon]

We can't presume to know how God answers prayers, and we have no idea how many potential tragedies may have been avoided through prayer.  I thank the Lord that such tragedies are rare, and I offer my sincere prayers for all the victims of Grenfell Tower.  Eternal rest give unto them, oh Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them.  May they rest in peace.  Amen.

Bet you had a little beatific smile in your lips when you posted that.

[wigginhall]

Bet you had a little beatific smile in your lips when you posted that.

Well, he felt good about himself.   That's the main thing.

[Rhiannon]

Well, he felt good about himself.   That's the main thing.

Surely the thought of eternal rest and perpetual light should make us all feel good?

[wigginhall]

Surely the thought of eternal rest and perpetual light should make us all feel good?

Time for a drink.

[Alan Burns]

You're not really making any plausible sense. Do you really expect us to believe that God is doing some sort of maths, calculating whether a critical mass of prayers has been reached in order to trigger a supernatural intervention ?  Do you imagine if we got a football stadium full of people praying for desperate migrants then we would start to see Libyan orphans being miraculously plucked from the waters and placed on dry land by some mysterious unseen hand ?  You really need to think this miracles business through, you are just floundering around and opening yourself up to ridicule at the moment.

You presume that God has limitless power to intervene at will.
But the Gospels tell us that faith is an essential ingredient for miraculous intervention:

Matthew 13:58

And He could not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.