Searching for GOD...

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Eden? As an ideal to be achieved, or as some state of aboriginal perfection from which we have descended? I take it that you don't think the story of Adam and Eve is literally true, but if not, then presumably you think there was some kind of Golden Age? If so, when?

There has to be a time of realisation of full humanity coupled with a state of bestial nobility, connectedness to nature and awareness of the divine prior to which there was none. How long lasted that was, seconds, minutes, days, I know not.

[Shaker]

On the subject of Slavery, it was God who freed humans from being a slave to the uncontrollable forces of nature by giving us the ability to consciously choose our own destiny.

Is that the Assertatron wheezing and groaning into action again? Why, yes.

Vlad dodged this one so maybe you'd care to have a go, Al.

Why in the Bible does it nowhere say that for human beings to own other human beings as enforced labourers (i.e. slavery) is a wrong and a bad thing?

I know my answer; what's yours?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So humans existed without god crating them

For export?

[Shaker]

There has to be a time of realisation of full humanity coupled with a state of bestial nobility, connectedness to nature and awareness of the divine prior to which there was none. How long lasted that was, seconds, minutes, days, I know not.

The English language:

? - July 5th 2017.

RIP.

[Nearly Sane]

For export?

To Mars for the slave camps!!!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The English language:

? - July 5th 2017.

RIP.

Vlad's Maxim number 1

You know your landing them on New Atheism when they get down to bleating about your quality of English.

[Shaker]

Vlad's Maxim number 1

You know your landing them on New Atheism when they get down to bleating about your quality of English.

Vlad's maxim no. 1 was formulated very early on in your online career, I'll wager.

[Rhiannon]

On the subject of Slavery, it was God who freed humans from being a slave to the uncontrollable forces of nature by giving us the ability to consciously choose our own destiny.

Don't we have free will because we are fallen?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Just back from a very nice bike ride on a disused railway line, so thought I’d look in.

So what do we know about our Vlad now then?

Well, actually nothing we didn’t know anyway. Once you get past the relentless lying, the shameless redefining of words to suit, the personal abuse, the stream of logical fallacies, the mad paranoia, and the unqualified assertions what you find right at the bottom of the well is a common-or-garden un-reconstituted cosmological argument merchant. “All this stuff? Well, it must have, like, come from somewhere right? So, um, therefore God. Ta-daaa!”

It really is that crude and that hopeless.

Really.

Never mind that the only way out of the infinite regression problem it causes is, “it’s magic innit”. Never mind that complexity increases because of phenomena like emergence so our “ability” doesn’t have to be “derived” at all. Never mind that, even if it wasn’t a hopelessly broken argument all it would suggest its deism – a disinterested clockmaker god who started it all and then buggered off. Never mind that you’d still have all your work for the theistic god of your choice ahead of you. Never mind that it’s an argument that rests solely on personal incredulity and a god of the gaps fallacy for good measure.

Never mind anything. No wonder old Fallacy Boy has spent years avoiding every question put to him – when he finally dares to put his head above the parapet it turns out that all he has is the most highly buffed, gold-plated, jewel-encrusted, fur-lined, ocean going polished turd of them all.

Who’d have thunk it eh?

[Nearly Sane]

Vlad's Maxim number 1

You know your landing them on New Atheism when they get down to bleating about your quality of English.

'If I make no sense, and someone points that out, means I am right, because I said it firsty , a million times!!!!'

[Shaker]

Don't we have free will because we are fallen?

That's a Burns BOGOF of assertions.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

My lack of coherence is thus a matter of opinion.

No, your lack of coherence is a matter of a disordered mind trying to express its jumbled thoughts with only a limited grasp of the language it wants to harness for the purpose.

[ippy]

On the subject of Slavery, it was God who freed humans from being a slave to the uncontrollable forces of nature by giving us the ability to consciously choose our own destiny.

O K Alan, where's the proof, where's the evidence, were and how did you acquire the said evidence, where did it come from, who gave it to you, was it a letter, an email, a phone call, somebody with a voice like Brian Blessed shouting it out from the sky?

All of the above is equally as sensible as your assertion, probably more sensible, so O K where's your answer?

I don't think you're insane so I'll guess you must know you can't answer, but don't like to admit it?

ippy

[Rhiannon]

That's a Burns BOGOF of assertions.

Or is it that we are fallen because we have free will?

Round and round...

[Shaker]

Fallacy Boy,

No, your lack of coherence is a matter of a disordered mind trying to express its jumbled thoughts with only a limited grasp of the language it wants to harness for the purpose.

While he was alive we used to have the Hitchslap; now I propose we label the Bluebattering.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

You know your landing them on New Atheism when they get down to bleating about your quality of English.

No, what you actually know is that it's impossible to deduce even what your'e trying to say when your use of language is so incoherent.

[Shaker]

O K Alan, where's the proof, where's the evidence, were and how did you acquire the said evidence, where did it come from, who gave it to you, was it a letter, an email, a phone call, somebody with a voice like Brian Blessed shouting it out from the sky?

If God sounds like the blessed BB, I'm in the club, frankly.

[Nearly Sane]

If God sounds like the blessed BB, I'm in the club, frankly.

The divine Augustus

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Just back from a very nice bike ride on a disused railway line, so thought I’d look in.

So what do we know about our Vlad now then?

Well, actually nothing we didn’t know anyway. Once you get past the relentless lying, the shameless redefining of words to suit, the personal abuse, the stream of logical fallacies, the mad paranoia, and the unqualified assertions what you find right at the bottom of the well is a common-or-garden un-reconstituted cosmological argument merchant. “All this stuff? Well, it must have, like, come from somewhere right? So, um, therefore God. Ta-daaa!”

It really is that crude and that hopeless.

Really.

Never mind that the only way out of the infinite regression problem it causes is, “it’s magic innit”. Never mind that complexity increases because of phenomena like emergence so our “ability” doesn’t have to be “derived” at all. Never mind that, even if it wasn’t a hopelessly broken argument all it would suggest its deism – a disinterested clockmaker god who started it all and then buggered off. Never mind that you’d still have all your work for the theistic god of your choice ahead of you. Never mind that it’s an argument that rests solely on personal incredulity and a god of the gaps fallacy for good measure.

Never mind anything. No wonder old Fallacy Boy has spent years avoiding every question put to him – when he finally dares to put his head above the parapet it turns out that all he has is the most highly buffed, gold-plated, jewel-encrusted, fur-lined, ocean going polished turd of them all.

Who’d have thunk it eh?

Only somebody at sea could state that they have abilities to be and to do that are not derived.
Are you suggesting emerged properties pop out of nothing? That they are actual abilities dependent on nothing?

what infinite regression problem? actual ability is not dependent on anything.
The problem is therefore yours. Explaining an infinite regression of derived ability without actual ability. Be my guest.

[Nearly Sane]

Only somebody at sea could state that they have abilities to be and to do that are not derived.
Are you suggesting emerged properties pop out of nothing? That they are actual abilities dependent on nothing?

When you wrote that first sentence, did you say to the English language 'Look, there's plenty of lube, it won't hurt, after all it's only small!'

[Shaker]

 

[bluehillside Retd.]

Fallacy Boy,

Only somebody at sea could state that they have abilities to be and to do that are not derived.

Where do termites "derive" their "ability" to construct mounds given that none of them know about termite mounds?

Are you suggesting emerged properties pop out of nothing? That they are actual abilities dependent on nothing?

No, I'm explaining that their not "derived" from something with the same or superior knowledge.

[ippy]

If God sounds like the blessed BB, I'm in the club, frankly.

Said like a true Trekkie, live long and prosper Shakes.

ippy

[Maeght]

On the subject of Slavery, it was God who freed humans from being a slave to the uncontrollable forces of nature by giving us the ability to consciously choose our own destiny.

You believe but cannot prove.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Fallacy Boy,

Where do termites "derive" their "ability" to construct mounds given that none of them know about termite mounds?

No, I'm explaining that their not "derived" from something with the same or superior knowledge.

Well I'm glad we are agreed on derived ability. You still have to explain derived ability without actual ability independent .
In terms of the complexity you say is responsible for termites that is derived too. That might exclude multiple actual abilities or actual ability in anything physically complex.