Searching for GOD...

[Gordon]

Any form of "meaning" is a conscious phenomenon, not a reaction, and exists in our conscious awareness (our soul) brain.  Our soul brain perceives the information contained in the brain and forms meaning from it.  Our soul then interacts with the brain to enable it to express[es] this conscious meaning into words.

FIFY (red = my addition).

[floo]

FIFY (red = my addition).

I hope AB appreciates you being kind enough to help him out!

[Sebastian Toe]

Where does the notion of Heaven and Hell fit into this idea, where there is no living brain nor sensory apparatus?

I think I tried that query a while back along the lines of, if there is no access to the memory bank that is the brain then how would you know who you are?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Seb,

I think I tried that query a while back along the lines of, if there is no access to the memory bank that is the brain then how would you know who you are?

Dammit man, are you not listening to AB about stuff like this? He hasn't quite got al the details worked out yet. Or any details. Or a definition. Or a way out of logical incoherence. Or a method to test his claims. Or evidence. Or anything really.

On the brighter side though, he does have a story that makes sense to hm so – you know – the rest of us should treat that story as fact then right?

[Sebastian Toe]

Seb,

Dammit man, are you not listening to AB about stuff like this? He hasn't quite got al the details worked out yet. Or any details. Or a definition. Or a way out of logical incoherence. Or a method to test his claims. Or evidence. Or anything really.

On the brighter side though, he does have a story that makes sense to hm so – you know – the rest of us should treat that story as fact then right?

Sorry! 

[Alan Burns]

Where does the notion of Heaven and Hell fit into this idea, where there is no living brain nor sensory apparatus?

We will have heavenly bodies.

After the resurrection, there are some indications that the resurrected body of Jesus was different from His earthly body.  In John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary and her companion:
17 “Do not hold on to me,” Jesus told her, “because I have not yet gone back up to the Father.
Indicating that His resurrected body was not yet ready for embracing.
And there are several passages where the resurrected Jesus is not at first recognised by the disciples.

[Shaker]

We will have heavenly bodies.

Some of us started early, Al

[Alan Burns]

So you accept they have empathy, and some notion of 'right' and 'wrong'.
They are intelligent and can solve problems just like we can.

But we are really special though?

You can't discern what goes on in the minds of animals by observing their external reactions.  Conscious thought and perception of meaning is not manifest in external reactions.

[Nearly Sane]

You can't discern what goes on in the minds of animals by observing their external reactions.  Conscious thought and perception of meaning is not manifest in external reactions.

Those two sentences contradict each other.

[torridon]

You can't discern what goes on in the minds of animals by observing their external reactions.  Conscious thought and perception of meaning is not manifest in external reactions.

True to some extent and of course the same is true of humans, external behaviours and communication are an indicator of internal mind state but we cannot ever get inside the mind of another creature or another person. Humans are capable of more nuanced communication, but of course, with greater cognitive resources we have also a greater capacity for intentional deceit than most other creatures.

[floo]

We will have heavenly bodies.

After the resurrection, there are some indications that the resurrected body of Jesus was different from His earthly body.  In John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary and her companion:
17 “Do not hold on to me,” Jesus told her, “because I have not yet gone back up to the Father.
Indicating that His resurrected body was not yet ready for embracing.
And there are several passages where the resurrected Jesus is not at first recognised by the disciples.

You want to believe all that to be true, which is your entitlement, however you have to accept that many of us cannot share your belief.

[Shaker]

You want to believe all that to be true, which is your entitlement, however you have to accept that many of us cannot share your belief.

I don't really think AB is bothered by such mundane considerations. He's here to preach; that nobody takes him at all seriously is very much secondary to that.

[floo]

You can't discern what goes on in the minds of animals by observing their external reactions.  Conscious thought and perception of meaning is not manifest in external reactions.

How do you know that? Some animal species seems to be intelligent thinking creatures. I reckon it has taken thousands of years of evolution for the human animal to attain the thought processes they have now.

[floo]

I don't really think AB is bothered by such mundane considerations. He's here to preach; that nobody takes him at all seriously is very much secondary to that.

The more he preaches the less credible his message.

[Shaker]

Well, yes.

[Maeght]

Any form of "meaning" is a conscious phenomenon, not a reaction, and exists in our conscious awareness (our soul).  Our soul perceives the information contained in the brain and forms meaning from it.  Our soul then interacts with the brain to enable it to express this conscious meaning into words.

How does the soul form a meaning and decide what words are needed? Is it previous experinces or random?

[Nearly Sane]

True to some extent and of course the same is true of humans, external behaviours and communication are an indicator of internal mind state but we cannot ever get inside the mind of another creature or another person. Humans are capable of more nuanced communication, but of course, with greater cognitive resources we have also a greater capacity for intentional deceit than most other creatures.

In addition, if you can't tell what goes on in the minds of other animals due to external reactions, then AB has just shot his position, that what goes on lacks consciousness stone dead. He has just stated he has know way of knowing. A more rational approach is surely to examine the external reactions and see what something looks like. We could always be the brain in the old vat, but as you point out that applies to other humans as well. AB would not assume that a human unable to speak or write due to some disability was not consciously aware but that's because he assumes his conclusion rather than looking at the evidence. Oddly this leads to some responses reading as if there is no awareness and feel bot like

[torridon]

We will have heavenly bodies.

After the resurrection, there are some indications that the resurrected body of Jesus was different from His earthly body.  In John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary and her companion:
17 “Do not hold on to me,” Jesus told her, “because I have not yet gone back up to the Father.
Indicating that His resurrected body was not yet ready for embracing.
And there are several passages where the resurrected Jesus is not at first recognised by the disciples.

Isn't the whole idea of a 'heavenly body' an oxymoron ?  Are we still going to legs to support our weight in heaven, or arms to embrace with ? A circulation system to transport nutrients and oxygen ?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Isn't the whole idea of a 'heavenly body' an oxymoron ?  Are we still going to legs to support our weight in heaven, or arms to embrace with ? A circulation system to transport nutrients and oxygen ?

I think it means we will have distinction and identity. So not oxymoronic at all.

[Nearly Sane]

I think it means we will have distinction and identity. So not oxymoronic at all.

Except torridon was replying to AB's post which seems to go much further down the whole body bit than you do. I suggest you take up your apparent disagreement with AB rather than torridon.

[torridon]

I think it means we will have distinction and identity. So not oxymoronic at all.

A 'body', and furthermore, one that can be embraced, suggests something corporeal.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

A 'body', and furthermore, one that can be embraced, suggests something corporeal.

Yes It infers interaction and interface.

[Bramble]

We will have heavenly bodies.

Would these be the Christian equivalent of the 72 virgins?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Would these be the Christian equivalent of the 72 virgins?

Not really.... more like your ass really is saved.

[Bramble]

Not really.... more like your ass really is saved.

With 72 virgins at my disposal it's not my ass I'd be wanting