Searching for GOD...

[Shaker]

What right time are you referring to?

He probably thinks natural selection works to a timetable.

[Alan Burns]

Where is the other side of the window if it is not in this (material)  world?

I would have thought it was obvious that I was referring to the spiritual state which is not part of this material universe, but where our spiritual soul resides.  And it is not definable in the space time coordinates of our universe, but exists in what I believe to be the eternal state from which our universe was created.

[Sebastian Toe]

I would have thought it was obvious that I was referring to the spiritual state which is not part of this material universe, but where our spiritual soul resides.  And it is not definable in the space time coordinates of our universe, but exists in what I believe to be the eternal state from which our universe was created.

..and where is Heaven in relation to those two entirely different places?

[Stranger]

But do we have evidence that every one of the billions of beneficial mutations involved in the evolution process were the result of aimless, unguided, random events?

There is plenty of evidence that the process is random, unguided, and aimless: the neutral and harmful mutations that greatly outnumber the beneficial ones and the fact that the vast majority of species that have existed are now extinct.

What exactly is your alternative? Is your god incompetent? Working by trial and error? Having a laugh? Deliberately hiding?

[Gordon]

I would have thought it was obvious that I was referring to the spiritual state which is not part of this material universe, but where our spiritual soul resides.

You can refer to it all you like, just as Tolkien referred to Mordor, but that you refer to it doesn't demonstrate that this 'spiritual state which is not part of this material universe' is anything other than in your imagination.

And it is not definable in the space time coordinates of our universe, but exists in what I believe to be the eternal state from which our universe was created.

How convenient for you!

[ippy]

I am well aware of how evolution is supposed to work.
And I am well aware of the evidence for it being capable of fine tuning something which is already complex, for example it can ensure better chances for the survival of green frogs in a forest than those of white frogs.
And I am aware that all the theoretical scenarios put forward for the evolution of complex working organs assume a virtually infinite supply of beneficial mutations for the process to work on.
Yet there is little evidence for the probability of so many beneficial mutations occurring at the required time.
When looking back on the substantial changes in environment which caused near extermination of all life, I find it nothing short of miraculous that a series of specific mutations needed for survival just happened to occur at the right time.

"I am well aware of how evolution is supposed to work".

Says Alan Burns.

Necessarily kind regards ippy

[Alan Burns]

There is plenty of evidence that the process is random, unguided, and aimless: the neutral and harmful mutations that greatly outnumber the beneficial ones and the fact that the vast majority of species that have existed are now extinct.

What exactly is your alternative? Is your god incompetent? Working by trial and error? Having a laugh? Deliberately hiding?

We have all been gifted with a lifetime on this earth.  I know that our existence was not the end result of billions of coincidences - we were brought into existence for a purpose - to find God and accept the salvation we have been offered.  If we fail to accept the salvation offered through Jesus Christ, our spiritual souls will not enter the kingdom of heaven, or to use the words of the Lord's prayer, we will not be delivered from evil.  This in a nutshell is what Christianity is all about.

And there is a bonus.  In accepting Jesus as our saviour, we become more like Him and hopefully help to make this world a better place for everyone by turning against evil.  I accept that many people who call themselves Christian have not lived up to the Christian values laid down in the new testament, but the ideal is to "love one another as I have loved you".  And if only people practised this command, our world would be a far better place to live in.

[Maeght]

We have all been gifted with a lifetime on this earth.  I know that our existence was not the end result of billions of coincidences - we were brought into existence for a purpose - to find God and accept the salvation we have been offered.  If we fail to accept the salvation offered through Jesus Christ, our spiritual souls will not enter the kingdom of heaven, or to use the words of the Lord's prayer, we will not be delivered from evil.  This in a nutshell is what Christianity is all about.

And there is a bonus.  In accepting Jesus as our saviour, we become more like Him and hopefully help to make this world a better place for everyone by turning against evil.  I accept that many people who call themselves Christian have not lived up to the Christian values laid down in the new testament, but the ideal is to "love one another as I have loved you".  And if only people practised this command, our world would be a far better place to live in.

You believe, not know.

What right times were you referring to Alan?

[SusanDoris]

#24,881

Total drivel.

[floo]

We have all been gifted with a lifetime on this earth.  I know that our existence was not the end result of billions of coincidences - we were brought into existence for a purpose - to find God and accept the salvation we have been offered.  If we fail to accept the salvation offered through Jesus Christ, our spiritual souls will not enter the kingdom of heaven, or to use the words of the Lord's prayer, we will not be delivered from evil.  This in a nutshell is what Christianity is all about.

And there is a bonus.  In accepting Jesus as our saviour, we become more like Him and hopefully help to make this world a better place for everyone by turning against evil.  I accept that many people who call themselves Christian have not lived up to the Christian values laid down in the new testament, but the ideal is to "love one another as I have loved you".  And if only people practised this command, our world would be a far better place to live in.

That is belief NOT knowledge!

[Shaker]

We have all been gifted with a lifetime on this earth.  I know

BurnsSpeak for believe.

that our existence was not the end result of billions of coincidences

This from the keyboard of the same person who wrote "I am well aware of how evolution is supposed to work."

Comedy gold.

we were brought into existence for a purpose - to find God and accept the salvation we have been offered.  If we fail to accept the salvation offered through Jesus Christ, our spiritual souls will not enter the kingdom of heaven

Given those who are so confident that they'll be going there, I'll take that as a decided plus.

In accepting Jesus as our saviour, we become more like Him.

Do you think you have "become more like him", and in which case, can you really say that that's a recommendation?

[ippy]

We have all been gifted with a lifetime on this earth.  I know that our existence was not the end result of billions of coincidences - we were brought into existence for a purpose - to find God and accept the salvation we have been offered.  If we fail to accept the salvation offered through Jesus Christ, our spiritual souls will not enter the kingdom of heaven, or to use the words of the Lord's prayer, we will not be delivered from evil.  This in a nutshell is what Christianity is all about.

And there is a bonus.  In accepting Jesus as our saviour, we become more like Him and hopefully help to make this world a better place for everyone by turning against evil.  I accept that many people who call themselves Christian have not lived up to the Christian values laid down in the new testament, but the ideal is to "love one another as I have loved you".  And if only people practised this command, our world would be a far better place to live in.

There's shed loads of evidence that supports the theory of evolution.

There's zero evidence that would, if there were any, support any of the magical, mystical or superstition based parts of that bronze age manual of yours Alan.

I was wondering Alan do you find this thread, inside that mind of yours, to be to be the equivalent of wearing a hair shirt?

Necessarily kind regards ippy.

[Stranger]

I know that our existence was not the end result of billions of coincidences - we were brought into existence for a purpose - to find God and accept the salvation we have been offered.

While I'm sure you sincerely believe this, you know nothing of the sort.

If we fail to accept the salvation offered through Jesus Christ, our spiritual souls will not enter the kingdom of heaven, or to use the words of the Lord's prayer, we will not be delivered from evil...

So, when faced with facts and hard questions to answer, you've chosen to run away from them and preach your blind faith at us. It really isn't a great advert for it, you know.

So what about all those non-beneficial mutations and most species being extinct? What do you think your god is playing at?

[Alan Burns]

There's shed loads of evidence that supports the theory of evolution.

There's zero evidence that would, if there were any, support any of the magical, mystical or superstition based parts of that bronze age manual of yours Alan.

I was wondering Alan do you find this thread, inside that mind of yours, to be to be the equivalent of wearing a hair shirt?

Necessarily kind regards ippy.

I am truly grateful for all the responses I get on this thread which enable me to continue to witness to the truth of God's existence. 

[floo]

There's shed loads of evidence that supports the theory of evolution.

There's zero evidence that would, if there were any, support any of the magical, mystical or superstition based parts of that bronze age manual of yours Alan.

I was wondering Alan do you find this thread, inside that mind of yours, to be to be the equivalent of wearing a hair shirt?

Necessarily kind regards ippy.

What an interesting question. AB gets a lot of stick for his views, so maybe membership of this forum is a kind of penance for his sins.

[Shaker]

I am truly grateful for all the responses I get on this thread which enable me to continue to witness to the truth of God's existence.

By utterly ignoring every single thing, every point, every argument, every refutation which torpedoes your delusional worldview.

[Alan Burns]

So what about all those non-beneficial mutations and most species being extinct? What do you think your god is playing at?

As I see things, God allows nature to take its course, but has the power to guide and manipulate when needed to implement His will on this earth.  Left to nature alone, the non beneficial mutations would have exterminated all life, if it had ever come into existence - which in itself is highly unlikely without God's intervention.

[Shaker]

As I see things [...]

Delusionally.

[ippy]

I am truly grateful for all the responses I get on this thread which enable me to continue to witness to the truth of God's existence.

Now that statement of yours would be really irritating, if you had a shred of evidence, since you haven't Alan, it remains status quo and there's not much chance of any alterations in that area, is there Alan? 

If you did find evidence, concrete evidence to support your case Alan, I reckon you wouldn't be able to post it here, you would have exploded.

Necessarily kind regards ippy.   

[Shaker]

Answer came there none, ipples.

What a surprise.

[Alan Burns]

What an interesting question. AB gets a lot of stick for his views, so maybe membership of this forum is a kind of penance for his sins.

People often look upon Christians as not very happy people, having to comply with lots of rules and feeling guilty when they fail.

Yesterday was Gaudete Sunday, translated to mean Rejoice Sunday.  A time for all Christians to rejoice for the coming celebration of our Saviour's birth.  One of the readings at yesterday's Mass encourages Christians "to be happy at all times".  I know there are many Christians who seem to dwell on doom and gloom, but I, along with many others, find indescribable joy in knowing God's love and accepting Him as our Saviour.  So I certainly do not see my experience on this forum as a penance.  It is a true joy to be able to witness to my faith, and in doing so it brings me closer to God and enriches my faith in Him.

[floo]

I am truly grateful for all the responses I get on this thread which enable me to continue to witness to the truth of God's existence.

I get the impression you think you are notching up Brownie points by stating your belief over and over again, even though you are never going to convince the non believers on this forum that it has any credibility.

[Stranger]

As I see things, God allows nature to take its course, but has the power to guide and manipulate when needed to implement His will on this earth.

You realize that doesn't make any sense? Making nature in such a way that it produces what this god of yours intended would make sense. Miraculously producing exactly what it wanted would make sense. But why would a god make nature so that it can only do some of the job and then go poking around in DNA from time to time, over billions of years, allowing endless neutral and harmful mutations to happen, letting most species go extinct, and generally leaving overwhelming evidence that nature had done all of it?

Left to nature alone, the non beneficial mutations would have exterminated all life...

Once again Alan, you are dishonestly presenting your ill-informed beliefs as if they were facts and showing yet again that you don't understand evolution by natural selection.

[Shaker]

Once again Alan, you are dishonestly presenting your ill-informed beliefs as if they were facts and showing yet again that you don't understand evolution by natural selection.

How very dare you! Why, only yesterday Alan himself told us "I am well aware of how evolution is supposed to work." What more proof do you need?

[Alan Burns]

Now that statement of yours would be really irritating, if you had a shred of evidence, since you haven't Alan, it remains status quo and there's not much chance of any alterations in that area, is there Alan? 

If you did find evidence, concrete evidence to support your case Alan, I reckon you wouldn't be able to post it here, you would have exploded.

Necessarily kind regards ippy.

The concrete evidence is you, Ippy, and your ability to freely interact with this world, rather than just be a biological machine entirely driven by the uncontrollable forces of nature.