Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3863456 times)

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2675 on: July 31, 2015, 01:20:59 AM »
I have questioned to myself why so many non believers persist in contributing to this Christian topic.  At first I presumed it might be in order to get the satisfaction of being able to ridicule Christian beliefs.  But now I believe there is something deeper - it may be their way of searching for God, or perhaps even being led to search for Him without realising it themselves.  God really does work in mysterious ways, so I just hope and pray that they continue the search until they find Him.

Alan we have a perfect right to challenge those beliefs, especially when some Christians state them as factual, without the evidence to support the claim! ::)

Do you ever state things as factual without evidence, floo?
(I don't see anyone suggesting that you don't have a right the challenge any beliefs, floo; do you?)

I don't think I do. Where the Bible is concerned there is no verifiable evidence to support any of the fantastical claims. Of course they could be true but the probability is very low, imo.

And has anyone suggested you don't have the right to challenge beliefs?

When I was a kid I was told one should never question what was in the Bible as it was all true. ::) I am making up for that now! ;D

You never actually question anything in the bible. Is that because you constantly prove you have no knowledge of understand about it's contents?

More baloney from Sass, who makes its all up as she goes along!

Everyone is laughing at you.... your post shows how stupid your thinking really is.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2676 on: July 31, 2015, 01:22:30 AM »
I have questioned to myself why so many non believers persist in contributing to this Christian topic.  At first I presumed it might be in order to get the satisfaction of being able to ridicule Christian beliefs.  But now I believe there is something deeper - it may be their way of searching for God, or perhaps even being led to search for Him without realising it themselves.  God really does work in mysterious ways, so I just hope and pray that they continue the search until they find Him.

Alan we have a perfect right to challenge those beliefs, especially when some Christians state them as factual, without the evidence to support the claim! ::)

Do you ever state things as factual without evidence, floo?
(I don't see anyone suggesting that you don't have a right the challenge any beliefs, floo; do you?)

I don't think I do. Where the Bible is concerned there is no verifiable evidence to support any of the fantastical claims. Of course they could be true but the probability is very low, imo.

And has anyone suggested you don't have the right to challenge beliefs?

When I was a kid I was told one should never question what was in the Bible as it was all true. ::) I am making up for that now! ;D

You never actually question anything in the bible. Is that because you constantly prove you have no knowledge of understand about it's contents?

And you have never substantiated the validity of your bible Sass.

ippy

Well tell everyone here what FAITH means according to the bible what exactly have we NOT substantiated that you can actually understand or tell us about... Popcorn anyone
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2677 on: July 31, 2015, 01:24:02 AM »
Sass, can I just ask: Who do you think wrote the Bible....

Both NT and/or OT?

Wrote it down or inspired it's writing.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2678 on: July 31, 2015, 06:03:11 AM »
Sass, can I just ask: Who do you think wrote the Bible....

Both NT and/or OT?

Wrote it down or inspired it's writing.

Men wrote it down, inspired by their imagination (and possibly magic mushrooms).

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2679 on: July 31, 2015, 08:20:56 AM »
Sass, can I just ask: Who do you think wrote the Bible....

Both NT and/or OT?
Wrote it down or inspired it's writing.
Men wrote it down, inspired by their imagination (and possibly magic mushrooms).
But the words of the bible inspired billions of people to find God in their lives
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2680 on: July 31, 2015, 08:37:58 AM »
Sass, can I just ask: Who do you think wrote the Bible....

Both NT and/or OT?

Wrote it down or inspired it's writing.

Men wrote it down, inspired by their imagination (and possibly magic mushrooms).

Even if God does exist and does have ideas and rules that he wishes to communicate, human beings are fallible - through subjective experience, thoughts and preferences they will have coloured the original writings. Then of course we have centuries of translation and interpretation to contend with.

It's not so much the God-breathed Word as Chinese whispers.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2681 on: July 31, 2015, 08:59:30 AM »
But the words of the bible inspired billions of people to find God in their lives
And just look how well that has worked out ::)
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

horsethorn

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2682 on: July 31, 2015, 09:18:56 AM »
Sass, can I just ask: Who do you think wrote the Bible....

Both NT and/or OT?
Wrote it down or inspired it's writing.
Men wrote it down, inspired by their imagination (and possibly magic mushrooms).
But the words of the bible inspired billions of people to find God in their lives

And the words of the Guru Granth Sahib inspired millions to find god in their lives.

And the words of the Quran inspired billions to find god in their lives.

And the words of the Upanishads inspired billions to find god in their lives.

How is you claim any different to theirs?

ht
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Steampunk Panentheist
Not an atheist
"We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)

savillerow

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2683 on: July 31, 2015, 10:21:02 AM »
Msg 2799 Horsethorn, I think its called "special pleading"
i know this is hard for theists to agree with but . . . .we are flying this planet.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2684 on: July 31, 2015, 10:46:05 AM »
When one reads the crazy outpourings of Sass, I wonder if she a related to a poster (banned from R&E) who favours us with his totally delusional posts on the other forum? ;D 

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2685 on: July 31, 2015, 10:50:04 AM »
I have questioned to myself why so many non believers persist in contributing to this Christian topic.  At first I presumed it might be in order to get the satisfaction of being able to ridicule Christian beliefs.  But now I believe there is something deeper - it may be their way of searching for God, or perhaps even being led to search for Him without realising it themselves.  God really does work in mysterious ways, so I just hope and pray that they continue the search until they find Him.

Alan we have a perfect right to challenge those beliefs, especially when some Christians state them as factual, without the evidence to support the claim! ::)

Do you ever state things as factual without evidence, floo?
(I don't see anyone suggesting that you don't have a right the challenge any beliefs, floo; do you?)

I don't think I do. Where the Bible is concerned there is no verifiable evidence to support any of the fantastical claims. Of course they could be true but the probability is very low, imo.

And has anyone suggested you don't have the right to challenge beliefs?

When I was a kid I was told one should never question what was in the Bible as it was all true. ::) I am making up for that now! ;D

You never actually question anything in the bible. Is that because you constantly prove you have no knowledge of understand about it's contents?

And you have never substantiated the validity of your bible Sass.

ippy

Well tell everyone here what FAITH means according to the bible what exactly have we NOT substantiated that you can actually understand or tell us about... Popcorn anyone

So you never have and odds on you never will substantiate that your bible is anything more than man made then Sass; only you still haven't established whether there are any specifically god bits in it especially the mythical, magical and superstition based parts of it yet.

Another no answer post for you Sass? Surprise us all with a sensible answer.   

ippy

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2686 on: July 31, 2015, 11:00:52 AM »
I have questioned to myself why so many non believers persist in contributing to this Christian topic.  At first I presumed it might be in order to get the satisfaction of being able to ridicule Christian beliefs.  But now I believe there is something deeper - it may be their way of searching for God, or perhaps even being led to search for Him without realising it themselves.  God really does work in mysterious ways, so I just hope and pray that they continue the search until they find Him.

Not really Alan, cant think what it it that has made you so crazy about such an easy to see as a man made belief; still you're not on your own.

Yes I'm searching, yes searching why so many are taken in hook line and sinker by such a load of obvious nonsense.

Other than this religious nonsense you go on about you seem to be a reasonable person and I get the impression you also lead a reasonable decent life; ask yourself what difference it would make to how you behave if you gave up that religion rubbish, other than free up some extra time for yourself?

ippy 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 12:41:12 PM by ippy »

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2687 on: July 31, 2015, 11:11:27 AM »
Sass, can I just ask: Who do you think wrote the Bible....

Both NT and/or OT?
Wrote it down or inspired it's writing.
Men wrote it down, inspired by their imagination (and possibly magic mushrooms).
But the words of the bible inspired billions of people to find God in their lives

No, Alan, the words of the Bible supplied many people with escape from finding their own way to live, and the false promise of everlasting life. The world is waking up to the fact that it was all a con.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2688 on: July 31, 2015, 12:04:23 PM »
Sass, can I just ask: Who do you think wrote the Bible....

Both NT and/or OT?
Wrote it down or inspired it's writing.
Men wrote it down, inspired by their imagination (and possibly magic mushrooms).
But the words of the bible inspired billions of people to find God in their lives

And the words of the Guru Granth Sahib inspired millions to find god in their lives.

And the words of the Quran inspired billions to find god in their lives.

And the words of the Upanishads inspired billions to find god in their lives.

How is you claim any different to theirs?

ht
If one of the religious belief is true, quoting other beliefs does not make that one untrue.

Mankind has been given an insight into the truth that there is a God, and this has inspired many people to search for God in their lives.  You will know the true God when He comes into your life.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2689 on: July 31, 2015, 12:11:05 PM »
If one of the religious belief is true, quoting other beliefs does not make that one untrue.
Big old word to kick off your sentence there, Al ;)

Quote
Mankind has been given an insight into the truth that there is a God
And yet only some people believe it - fewer and fewer in certain parts of the world, in fact.

Quote
You will know the true God when He comes into your life.
And the circular argument merry-go-round goes round and round as ever.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2690 on: July 31, 2015, 12:41:22 PM »
Other than this religious nonsense you go on about you seem to be a reasonable person and I get the impression you also lead a reasonable decent life; ask yourself what difference it would make to how you behave if you gave up that religion rubbish, other than free up some extra time for yourself?

ippy
I have personally witnessed amazing transformations in people who have found God in their lives.  Without my faith, I am certain that I would be a more self centred person.  I know that there are many non believers who lead very good lives - some I would say better than mine, but with faith I am sure God would inspire everyone to make better use of their talents.

This example may seem trivial, but to me it is an indication of someone who has found God, and inspired to go that extra mile to help people.  My wife and I were spending a week in the Taize community in France, along with two thousand other young Christians.  One of the Taize brothers was appointed with the task of helping people with their travel arrangements on leaving.  We were in a queue waiting for help with our own need to travel on to Grindelwalt in Switzerland.  People ahead of us were of different nationalities, some with very complicated travel needs, and this monk seemed to delight in providing everyone with exactly what they needed.  He appeared to have access to all European timetables for bus, train and flight times (before the internet!).  And he had facilities for providing tickets!  He dealt with everyone with a calm delightful manner, and everyone left with a smile on their face.  We came away very happy with our bus and train tickets to Grindelwalt, and we had the same experience with the same monk each time we came over the next four years, but each time with a different travel destination.  He had been doing this job every week over the years and it was still a delight to be served by him.   We have had dealings with numerous travel agents over the years, but nothing came close to the free service offered in Taize.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

horsethorn

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2691 on: July 31, 2015, 12:44:23 PM »
Alan, explain to me how it is that your religion has no evidence to differentiate it from any other? Any evidence you claim about 'changed lives' or 'miraculous healing' is either refuted or paralleled exactly by other religions.

If yours is the 'true' one, how come it looks exactly the same as all the other 'false' ones?

ht
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"We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest trying to figure itself out." (Delenn, Babylon 5)

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2692 on: July 31, 2015, 01:04:02 PM »
Other than this religious nonsense you go on about you seem to be a reasonable person and I get the impression you also lead a reasonable decent life; ask yourself what difference it would make to how you behave if you gave up that religion rubbish, other than free up some extra time for yourself?

ippy
I have personally witnessed amazing transformations in people who have found God in their lives.  Without my faith, I am certain that I would be a more self centred person.  I know that there are many non believers who lead very good lives - some I would say better than mine, but with faith I am sure God would inspire everyone to make better use of their talents.

This example may seem trivial, but to me it is an indication of someone who has found God, and inspired to go that extra mile to help people.  My wife and I were spending a week in the Taize community in France, along with two thousand other young Christians.  One of the Taize brothers was appointed with the task of helping people with their travel arrangements on leaving.  We were in a queue waiting for help with our own need to travel on to Grindelwalt in Switzerland.  People ahead of us were of different nationalities, some with very complicated travel needs, and this monk seemed to delight in providing everyone with exactly what they needed.  He appeared to have access to all European timetables for bus, train and flight times (before the internet!).  And he had facilities for providing tickets!  He dealt with everyone with a calm delightful manner, and everyone left with a smile on their face.  We came away very happy with our bus and train tickets to Grindelwalt, and we had the same experience with the same monk each time we came over the next four years, but each time with a different travel destination.  He had been doing this job every week over the years and it was still a delight to be served by him.   We have had dealings with numerous travel agents over the years, but nothing came close to the free service offered in Taize.

Well, really, Alan!  ::)

This man is just one of the very few people that gets pleasure from helping others without reward to himself ... other than the pleasure it gives him to do so. Why on earth do you think this ia a sign of "God" in him?

Maeght

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2693 on: July 31, 2015, 01:13:07 PM »
Other than this religious nonsense you go on about you seem to be a reasonable person and I get the impression you also lead a reasonable decent life; ask yourself what difference it would make to how you behave if you gave up that religion rubbish, other than free up some extra time for yourself?

ippy
I have personally witnessed amazing transformations in people who have found God in their lives.  Without my faith, I am certain that I would be a more self centred person.  I know that there are many non believers who lead very good lives - some I would say better than mine, but with faith I am sure God would inspire everyone to make better use of their talents.

This example may seem trivial, but to me it is an indication of someone who has found God, and inspired to go that extra mile to help people.  My wife and I were spending a week in the Taize community in France, along with two thousand other young Christians.  One of the Taize brothers was appointed with the task of helping people with their travel arrangements on leaving.  We were in a queue waiting for help with our own need to travel on to Grindelwalt in Switzerland.  People ahead of us were of different nationalities, some with very complicated travel needs, and this monk seemed to delight in providing everyone with exactly what they needed.  He appeared to have access to all European timetables for bus, train and flight times (before the internet!).  And he had facilities for providing tickets!  He dealt with everyone with a calm delightful manner, and everyone left with a smile on their face.  We came away very happy with our bus and train tickets to Grindelwalt, and we had the same experience with the same monk each time we came over the next four years, but each time with a different travel destination.  He had been doing this job every week over the years and it was still a delight to be served by him.   We have had dealings with numerous travel agents over the years, but nothing came close to the free service offered in Taize.

No evidence of the existence of God in that - only that the chap was a nice guy and maybe inspired to do good things by his belief in God, but that doesn't mean that belief is valid.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2694 on: July 31, 2015, 01:15:40 PM »
No evidence of the existence of God in that - only that the chap was a nice guy and maybe inspired to do good things by his belief in God, but that doesn't mean that belief is valid.
Indeed. The same could be said for any number of - for example - Buddhist monks, who don't believe in a god.

Not sure where this fits into Alan's little scheme. No doubt he'll say something like it's the power of God working through them even though they're not aware of it ::)
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2695 on: July 31, 2015, 03:43:17 PM »
Other than this religious nonsense you go on about you seem to be a reasonable person and I get the impression you also lead a reasonable decent life; ask yourself what difference it would make to how you behave if you gave up that religion rubbish, other than free up some extra time for yourself?

ippy
I have personally witnessed amazing transformations in people who have found God in their lives.  Without my faith, I am certain that I would be a more self centred person.  I know that there are many non believers who lead very good lives - some I would say better than mine, but with faith I am sure God would inspire everyone to make better use of their talents....


It's an example of the reach of the placebo effect surely. If you believe a medication is going to make you better, you might actually get better, even if there is no active ingredient.  If you believe in God, it can transform your life.  We forget that beliefs, thoughts, desires are ultimately physical things, interacting seamlessly with our broader physiology all the time. A belief doesn't have to be true, or correct, for its effects to be felt, just that we believe it sincerely and passionately.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2696 on: July 31, 2015, 04:42:59 PM »
Other than this religious nonsense you go on about you seem to be a reasonable person and I get the impression you also lead a reasonable decent life; ask yourself what difference it would make to how you behave if you gave up that religion rubbish, other than free up some extra time for yourself?

ippy

This example may seem trivial, but to me it is an indication of someone who has found God, and inspired to go that extra mile to help people.  My wife and I were spending a week in the Taize community in France, along with two thousand other young Christians.  One of the Taize brothers was appointed with the task of helping people with their travel arrangements on leaving.  We were in a queue waiting for help with our own need to travel on to Grindelwalt in Switzerland.  People ahead of us were of different nationalities, some with very complicated travel needs, and this monk seemed to delight in providing everyone with exactly what they needed.  He appeared to have access to all European timetables for bus, train and flight times (before the internet!).  And he had facilities for providing tickets!  He dealt with everyone with a calm delightful manner, and  We came away very happy with our bus and train tickets to Grindelwalt, and we had the same experience with the same monk each time we came over the next four years, but each time with a different travel destination.  He had been doing this job every week over the years and it was still a delight to be served by him.   We have had dealings with numerous travel agents over the years, but nothing came close to the free service offered in Taize.
Quote

"I have personally witnessed amazing transformations in people who have found God in their lives.  Without my faith, I am certain that I would be a more self centred person.  I know that there are many non believers who lead very good lives - some I would say better than mine, but with faith I am sure God would inspire everyone to make better use of their talents".

Well you would if you hang around with a load of mostly converted, (being polite), think alike people it's hardly surprising that some them have imagined they'd had some kind of transformation; it would be more surprising if none of them were prone to having this kind of thought.

I wonder if you were to do this kind of thing again but with a stamp collectors community of people, they're  not usually known for being one of the particularly aggressive groups there are in our society, how many of them would you expect to be converted by one of these meetings of yours, more than your, pre primed group  and maybe less of the stamp collecting group? 

 "everyone left with a smile on their face", well these groups do, so do most groups of people that are away with the fairies, nothing unusual about that.

I'm sure the Taize brothers are very nice group of people but that's all they are and there's nothing wrong with having a well developed imagination and grouping together with those of a similar nature, nothing magical or surprising there.

ippy

 





Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2697 on: July 31, 2015, 07:14:19 PM »
Other than this religious nonsense you go on about you seem to be a reasonable person and I get the impression you also lead a reasonable decent life; ask yourself what difference it would make to how you behave if you gave up that religion rubbish, other than free up some extra time for yourself?

ippy
I have personally witnessed amazing transformations in people who have found God in their lives.  Without my faith, I am certain that I would be a more self centred person.  I know that there are many non believers who lead very good lives - some I would say better than mine, but with faith I am sure God would inspire everyone to make better use of their talents....


It's an example of the reach of the placebo effect surely. If you believe a medication is going to make you better, you might actually get better, even if there is no active ingredient.  If you believe in God, it can transform your life.  We forget that beliefs, thoughts, desires are ultimately physical things, interacting seamlessly with our broader physiology all the time. A belief doesn't have to be true, or correct, for its effects to be felt, just that we believe it sincerely and passionately.

A couple of weeks ago I felt like I was going to die. I had severe chest pain on the left side, palpitations, and breathing difficulties. I took myself to my GP just in case but he confirmed what I already suspected - it was the physical effects of anxiety as I waited for one of my children to come home on the Eurostar via Calais.

Positive beliefs have similar physical effects. So do prayer/mediation/contemplation. I'm familiar with the Taize chants and they are very meditative in form.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2698 on: July 31, 2015, 07:29:33 PM »

Positive beliefs have similar physical effects. So do prayer/mediation/contemplation. I'm familiar with the Taize chants and they are very meditative in form.

As I have said many times already, it's mind over matter. All positive effects attributed to "God" are produced by the belief in "God" ... that's all.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2699 on: July 31, 2015, 11:15:41 PM »

Well, really, Alan!  ::)

This man is just one of the very few people that gets pleasure from helping others without reward to himself ... other than the pleasure it gives him to do so. Why on earth do you think this ia a sign of "God" in him?
Len,
You always manage to use your considerable intelligence to think up a logical explanation for whatever I put forward, but the irony is that the free thought you use to construct this reply has in itself no logical explanation.

There is no logical explanation for what drives your free thoughts, nor what percieves them, nor what the thought is physically comprised of.

Believe in your soul, for that is what you are.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton