Searching for GOD...

[Nearly Sane]

Argument from incredulity and ignorance.

Gordon,
It seems to be a common trait for many posters on this forum to reply to something they disagree with by applying a trivial label like the one you use above instead of offering an intelligently thought out, logical response.  I know you wrote other responses within your post, but it does not add anything to your arguments by applying these meaningless labels.

I'd say that citing fallacies to point out instances of poor or absent reasoning saves adding to the meaningless waffle that we sometimes see here, such as in the paragraph that I was responded to when making the above comment.

I just felt that Sriram wrote an intelligent well thought out observation that deserved a better response.

so tell me why it wasn't argument by ignorance and incredulity?

[Shaker]

Because they're "trivial" and "meaningless labels," apparently ...

[Leonard James]

I just wish that you, and indeed everyone else, could experience it too. 

No doubt! But that doesn't answer my question. Why do you think that the majority of people don't feel the same thing as you?

[BashfulAnthony]

I just wish that you, and indeed everyone else, could experience it too. 

No doubt! But that doesn't answer my question. Why do you think that the majority of people don't feel the same thing as you?

A bit unsafe to start assuming you speak for the majority, eh?  There are billions of them!

[Leonard James]

I just wish that you, and indeed everyone else, could experience it too. 

No doubt! But that doesn't answer my question. Why do you think that the majority of people don't feel the same thing as you?

A bit unsafe to start assuming you speak for the majority, eh?  There are billions of them!

Alan says that the most important thing in his life is "God". Do you really think that is the opinion of the majority of the world's population?

If you do, you are sadly misinformed.

[BashfulAnthony]

I just wish that you, and indeed everyone else, could experience it too. 

No doubt! But that doesn't answer my question. Why do you think that the majority of people don't feel the same thing as you?

A bit unsafe to start assuming you speak for the majority, eh?  There are billions of them!

Alan says that the most important thing in his life is "God". Do you really think that is the opinion of the majority of the world's population?

If you do, you are sadly misinformed.

April 26, 2011|4:15 pm
A new survey shows that 51 percent of people in the world believe in God. Only 18 percent don’t and 17 percent are undecided.


Wrong yet again, Len.

Do ask Shaky before you make these grand pronouncements.   

[Shaker]

In the context of the recent election are you the same BashfulAnthony who recently commented on the uncertainty and unreliability of opinion polls, or a different one?

[BashfulAnthony]

In the context of the recent election are you the same BashfulAnthony who recently commented on the uncertainty and unreliability of opinion polls, or a different one?

There is always some doubt; but I think in this case, it is highly likely to be accurate, if not understated.  I am not aware of any polls which suggest the opposite position.

[Shaker]

There is always some doubt; but I think in this case, it is highly likely to be accurate, if not understated. 

Ah yes, I thought it might

[Leonard James]

April 26, 2011|4:15 pm
A new survey shows that 51 percent of people in the world believe in God. Only 18 percent don’t and 17 percent are undecided.


Wrong yet again, Len.

Do ask Shaky before you make these grand pronouncements.   

Do try to read what is posted, Bashers, and not what you would like it to be.

Take a poll on who considers "God" the most important thing in their life, and you will be shattered to find that only a small minority will say yes.

[Shaker]

April 26, 2011|4:15 pm
A new survey shows that 51 percent of people in the world believe in God. Only 18 percent don’t and 17 percent are undecided.


Wrong yet again, Len.

Do ask Shaky before you make these grand pronouncements.   

Do try to read what is posted, Bashers, and not what you would like it to be.

Take a poll on who considers "God" the most important thing in their life, and you will be shattered to find that only a small minority will say yes.

This reminded me of a poll I read about, not ever so long ago, the results of which revealed that when trying to make up their minds on some issue, especially a moral issue, atheists don't take religion into account at all which is exactly as you'd expect, but even self-declared religious people put it way, way down on the list of things that influenced their decision-making.

[Rhiannon]

Yes, I think many (most?) Irish still identify as Christian, the majority Catholic, but were and are happy to ignore the church over marriage equality, contraception etc. Increasingly modern Christians look to their faith for community, shared culture and fulfilment of individual needs rather than moral guidance.

[Shaker]

... in the case of Catholics especially one can hardly blame them

[Sriram]

I would never be so daft as to deny the possibility of such an intelligence, and will obviously accept it when I am presented with any reliable evidence for it.

Well...that is good enough for a start, I think. What you now need to realize is that the brain that you are so proud of, DNA... and everything else that exists in the world......IS the evidence for this Intelligence.

There is no other special evidence labeled as 'evidence for God' and hidden somewhere for us to find.

[Dicky Underpants]

Me too, babes.  If someone starts to tell me to use reason and technology more, yawn.  Or sometimes, fuck off, stop seeing me as an image of you.

wiggi

Both you and Rhiannon are ace posters; and as you know, my take on these matters used to be very much like yours. I do take a more 'reductionist' view of these things now*, and tend to look to the intricacies of brain chemistry to explain many of the phenomena that are often labelled 'spiritual'. But- maybe because I come from an artistic background - I can't quite bring myself to accept that the wonders of the scientific method are going to lead us to sunlit uplands. For instance, for me, the greatest art and music lie all in the past, and no amount of scientific advance of the last hundred years has stimulated anything of the greatness of Berlioz' achievement (again in my opinion). I could name dozens more great names - all from the past. Science has certainly made much of this legacy more readily available, but not stimulated much of true greatness (any fans of Stockhausen, Honegger and Edgar Varese here?).
So, even in my most sceptical phase (right now), I'm not going to start pontificating about what people should or should not believe, though I remain resolutely opposed to religious fundamentalism, as well as the negative effects of authoritarian religion in general (I'm with Shaker on that).

*Gone are the days when I wandered North Wales with Crowley's autobiography in my rucksack, along with Castaneda's 'Journey to Ixtlan' and Colin Wilson's "The Occult". Seem to remember trying to contact the spirit of a beech tree in order to 'do a Crowley' with it. I think I was pretty well barking....

[BashfulAnthony]

April 26, 2011|4:15 pm
A new survey shows that 51 percent of people in the world believe in God. Only 18 percent don’t and 17 percent are undecided.


Wrong yet again, Len.

Do ask Shaky before you make these grand pronouncements.   

Do try to read what is posted, Bashers, and not what you would like it to be.

Take a poll on who considers "God" the most important thing in their life, and you will be shattered to find that only a small minority will say yes.

This reminded me of a poll I read about, not ever so long ago, the results of which revealed that when trying to make up their minds on some issue, especially a moral issue, atheists don't take religion into account at all which is exactly as you'd expect, but even self-declared religious people put it way, way down on the list of things that influenced their decision-making.

Your answer reminds me of a poll I read somewhere that says take everything Shaker, and his poodle, Leonard, say with a pinch of salt.  Now where was that?   Hmm.   

[Dicky Underpants]

April 26, 2011|4:15 pm
A new survey shows that 51 percent of people in the world believe in God. Only 18 percent don’t and 17 percent are undecided.


Wrong yet again, Len.

Do ask Shaky before you make these grand pronouncements.   

Do try to read what is posted, Bashers, and not what you would like it to be.

Take a poll on who considers "God" the most important thing in their life, and you will be shattered to find that only a small minority will say yes.

This reminded me of a poll I read about, not ever so long ago, the results of which revealed that when trying to make up their minds on some issue, especially a moral issue, atheists don't take religion into account at all which is exactly as you'd expect, but even self-declared religious people put it way, way down on the list of things that influenced their decision-making.

Your answer reminds me of a poll I read somewhere that says take everything Shaker, and his poodle, Leonard, say with a pinch of salt.  Now where was that?   Hmm.   

Trouble is, the ideas about 'God' held by these varied believers vary enormously, however exact a poll you might come up with.
Wot abart the 6-8% buddhists, yer 'onner? Do they count as theists in your book? Quite a few million of those jolly coves.

P.S. Perhaps there needs to be a poll of how many latter-day Marcionites are about - or people who believe in Jesus, but who reject the Old Testament. I should imagine the Sea of Faith Christians would outnumber those.

[torridon]

I have always had a fascination of science and technology, but I can verify that it all pales into insignificance compared to the wonder and awe of knowing God.

Not so! It all pales into insignificance compared to the wonder of believing you know God.

Len, God is real.  More real than anything I perceive through my human senses.  God has made Himself known by becoming part of me.  You will most likely write this off as total delusion, but there are many others with the same insight.

Ah, but the God you believe in is a capricious being, bursting into the lives of some, unbidden, whilst stubbornly refusing to materialise for others who spend time earnestly 'looking' for him. This is not a God deserving of worship to my mind, it is a far lesser being than one that was available to all without fear of favour, with none of this silly hide and seek business.

[Rhiannon]

*Gone are the days when I wandered North Wales with Crowley's autobiography in my rucksack, along with Castaneda's 'Journey to Ixtlan' and Colin Wilson's "The Occult". Seem to remember trying to contact the spirit of a beech tree in order to 'do a Crowley' with it. I think I was pretty well barking....

Bet it was a laugh though.

Eta barking...very good...

[Leonard James]

I would never be so daft as to deny the possibility of such an intelligence, and will obviously accept it when I am presented with any reliable evidence for it.

Well...that is good enough for a start, I think. What you now need to realize is that the brain that you are so proud of, DNA... and everything else that exists in the world......IS the evidence for this Intelligence.

There is no other special evidence labeled as 'evidence for God' and hidden somewhere for us to find.

That's fine. I'll line myself up behind Einstein's take on religion.

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

[BashfulAnthony]

I would never be so daft as to deny the possibility of such an intelligence, and will obviously accept it when I am presented with any reliable evidence for it.

Well...that is good enough for a start, I think. What you now need to realize is that the brain that you are so proud of, DNA... and everything else that exists in the world......IS the evidence for this Intelligence.

There is no other special evidence labeled as 'evidence for God' and hidden somewhere for us to find.

That's fine. I'll line myself up behind Einstein's take on religion.

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

Can you say why?  Or, what do you think Einstein meant?

[Shaker]

Since we've invoked the chap that Gonners refers to as wee Albert, don't forget the childish and primitive bit

[BashfulAnthony]

Since we've invoked the chap that Gonners refers to as wee Albert, don't forget the childish and primitive bit

Strange!  Wee Shaky and the blessed Leonard appear together again!   Is it coincidence?  Did Lenny have to ask permission to post?  Or... are they one and the same...     

[Shaker]

Since we've invoked the chap that Gonners refers to as wee Albert, don't forget the childish and primitive bit

Strange!  Wee Shaky and the blessed Leonard appear together again!   Is it coincidence?  Did Lenny have to ask permission to post?  Or... are they one and the same...     

Yes, no and no are the answers you're after

[Alan Burns]

... in the case of Catholics especially one can hardly blame them

I personally know of many, many very happy Roman Catholics who endeavour to obey all the rules of the church in addition to doing other good works.  I know there are also many who cherry pick what rules they wish to obey in order to suite their lifestyle, but sadly they miss out on the absolute joy and inner peace of being at one with God.