Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3908861 times)

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35900 on: May 29, 2019, 11:50:12 AM »
Steve H,

Quote
Fair point. As Former Azure Slope said, I should have read your post more carefully.
However, even if we accept that all events must be either determined or fandom, surely a conscious decision can be a determining factor, and so free-will exists.

No, that’s just relocating the problem. A “conscious decision” is an event – therefore it’s either deterministic or random in character, regardless of how it feels at an experiential level. Your only way out is AB’s unspoken option of “it’s magic innit”, which helps you not a jot. 
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Roses

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35901 on: May 29, 2019, 12:00:45 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-47675301

Why are people so gullible as to believe what comes out of the mouths of these evil TV evangelists? If god exists, and is a good god as some claim it to be, it should be doing something to rid the world of these lying pieces of scum. >:(
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torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35902 on: May 29, 2019, 12:03:00 PM »
Fair point. As Former Azure Slope said, I should have read your post more carefully.
However, even if we accept that all events must be either determined or fandom, surely a conscious decision can be a determining factor, and so free-will exists.

A conscious decision would be a point in the overall flow of cause and effect.  The decision made would reflect the state of mind at the time of making a decision, and a state of mind arises as a consequence of things prior.  To imagine otherwise would imply a belief that mind states are random.  I don't buy that.

SteveH

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35903 on: May 29, 2019, 12:08:20 PM »
My brain hurts.
I once tried using "chicken" as a password, but was told it must contain a capital so I tried "chickenkiev"
On another occasion, I tried "beefstew", but was told it wasn't stroganoff.

Roses

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35904 on: May 29, 2019, 12:22:39 PM »
My brain hurts.

Wow do you really have a brain?  :P ;D
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35905 on: May 29, 2019, 12:25:38 PM »
Steve H,

Quote
My brain hurts.

Think of it this way: nature has no remit to correlate your experience of things with the way they actually are. Rather nature's remit is optimise the survival of genes. If experiencing your "will" as if it were "free" serves that purpose, then well and good.

AB's mistake is to be so emotionally wedded to the idea that his will is actually "free" (and then to conjure up a menagerie of "souls" and the like to make sense of that) that he cannot bear to accept the logically coherent alternative. It's a basic error in reasoning called the argumentum ad consequentiam that's been explained to him many times, but he clings to it as a man clings to concrete lifebelt nonetheless.       
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 12:35:39 PM by bluehillside Retd. »
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God

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35906 on: May 29, 2019, 12:40:37 PM »
Well put, that  :)

Walter

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35907 on: May 29, 2019, 01:29:42 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-47675301

Why are people so gullible as to believe what comes out of the mouths of these evil TV evangelists? If god exists, and is a good god as some claim it to be, it should be doing something to rid the world of these lying pieces of scum. >:(
the author of that article , Vicky Baker should be sacked . She could have put all that information into three short paragraphs !!

having said that , televangelists are all a set of COONTZ anyway . and people should take responsibility for their own gullibility . imo . (see what I did there)

Roses

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35908 on: May 29, 2019, 02:22:31 PM »
the author of that article , Vicky Baker should be sacked . She could have put all that information into three short paragraphs !!

having said that , televangelists are all a set of COONTZ anyway . and people should take responsibility for their own gullibility . imo . (see what I did there)

COONTZ?
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Walter

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35909 on: May 29, 2019, 03:23:52 PM »

Roses

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35910 on: May 29, 2019, 03:26:26 PM »
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Walter

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35911 on: May 29, 2019, 03:28:21 PM »

What does it mean?
Didn't you read the link you posted?

Roses

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35912 on: May 29, 2019, 03:32:33 PM »
Didn't you read the link you posted?


WHOOPS. I am more senile than I thought! :-[ :-[ 
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ekim

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35913 on: May 29, 2019, 03:38:22 PM »
My brain hurts.
Also think of it this way: God has no remit to correlate your experience to what is believed to be nature's remit.  If experiencing your 'will' as if it were 'free' serves such a purpose, then not so well and good, as it  is God's remit or Will which is to be surrendered to.

AB's mistake is to be so emotionally wedded to the idea that his will is actually "free, that it is adding to his attachments and illusion of freedom.  As reasoning is not required, only faith and hope, it is a basic error called argumentum ad religionem.

Walter

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35914 on: May 29, 2019, 03:49:40 PM »

WHOOPS. I am more senile than I thought! :-[ :-[
and I'm not far behind you  :(

Walter

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35915 on: May 29, 2019, 03:53:06 PM »
Also think of it this way: God has no remit to correlate your experience to what is believed to be nature's remit.  If experiencing your 'will' as if it were 'free' serves such a purpose, then not so well and good, as it  is God's remit or Will which is to be surrendered to.

AB's mistake is to be so emotionally wedded to the idea that his will is actually "free, that it is adding to his attachments and illusion of freedom.  As reasoning is not required, only faith and hope, it is a basic error called argumentum ad religionem.
argumentum ad religionem.
awww , you're making these up now


'All day breakfast'

bacon and egg ad infinitum
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 03:56:27 PM by Walter »

ekim

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35916 on: May 29, 2019, 03:59:46 PM »
argumentum ad religionem.
awww , you're making these up now


Well, somebody has to!

Roses

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35917 on: May 29, 2019, 04:47:08 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48435075

Another sick cult, posing as Christians. If Jesus was around today I hope he wouldn't want those sewer rats in his club.
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35918 on: May 29, 2019, 05:24:43 PM »
Floo,

Quote
Another sick cult...

Pardon?
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Walter

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35919 on: May 29, 2019, 06:10:35 PM »
Floo,

Pardon?
she made a typo hahahaha oops !

Roses

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35920 on: May 29, 2019, 06:14:50 PM »
she made a typo hahahaha oops !


What have I done wrong now?
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Walter

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35921 on: May 29, 2019, 06:22:04 PM »

What have I done wrong now?
nothing , we're just enjoying a childish play on words .

jeremyp

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35922 on: May 29, 2019, 06:40:44 PM »
Vic Reeves is a vastly overrated 'comedian' who presented, with his co-star Bob Mortimer, a uniquely unmemorable and unfunny show called Shooting Stars. In it, a large animated prop called "The Dove From Above" would be summoned down by the presenters and various guest celebrities. Fortunately, there is little else I remember about the show apart from this and Matt Lucas* in a romper suit.

Shooting Stars (TV series) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_Stars_(TV_series)


*nearly got my Matthews and Marks mixed up there - very biblical

Shooting Stars was actually a piece of genius. Dicky just had his sense of humour gland removed
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jeremyp

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35923 on: May 29, 2019, 06:42:20 PM »
This is a dreadfully naïve view which consciously chooses to categorise all human mental processes to be mechanistic reactions - thus deliberately ignoring any possibility for the spiritual nature of human awareness to invoke consciously driven choices.
No. Your view is the naive one. You have to pretend such bollocks as the soul exists for it to work.
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jeremyp

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #35924 on: May 29, 2019, 06:49:05 PM »
Nonsense. I can't predict who'll be the next tory leader, but it won't be random.
That doesn’t mean that the next Tory leader is unpredictable in principle.

I can’t predict the location of Mars in the sky every night, but that doesn’t mean it’s orbit is not deterministic.
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