Searching for GOD...

[Gordon]

Just finished reading the book "Why I am a Catholic" by GK Chesterton.  Like many converts, he had a much deeper knowledge and appreciation of the RC church than most cradle Catholics.

The last sentence of this book aptly sums up the essence and aims of my postings on this thread:

But let there be one night when things grow luminous from within: and one day when men seek for all that is buried in themselves, and discover, where she is indeed hidden, behind locked gates and shuttered windows, and doors thrice bolted, the spirit of liberty.

I doubt that the 'spirit of liberty' is to be found lurking anywhere within the confines of the authoritative rigidity that is the RCC.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

Just finished reading the book "Why I am a Catholic" by GK Chesterton.  Like many converts, he had a much deeper knowledge and appreciation of the RC church than most cradle Catholics.

The last sentence of this book aptly sums up the essence and aims of my postings on this thread:

But let there be one night when things grow luminous from within: and one day when men seek for all that is buried in themselves, and discover, where she is indeed hidden, behind locked gates and shuttered windows, and doors thrice bolted, the spirit of liberty.

As your "aim" seems to be solely to proselytise rather than to discuss anything, does it not occur to you that you're more likely to achieve your aim if you manage to produce logically sound arguments for your beliefs?

You don't even need to have lots of arguments - just one will do. So, do you have even one argument for "god" that isn't false?

[Stranger]

The last sentence of this book aptly sums up the essence and aims of my postings on this thread:

But let there be one night when things grow luminous from within: and one day when men seek for all that is buried in themselves, and discover, where she is indeed hidden, behind locked gates and shuttered windows, and doors thrice bolted, the spirit of liberty.

So how do you think robotically repeating fallacy-ridden, self-contradictory nonsense and refusing to engage with or even (apparently) remember the answers you get, is going to further this aim?

You seem far more trapped and lacking in anything like a "spirit of liberty" than most other people here.

[Roses]

If a robotic pope held office spouting the RCC dogma, I suspect some devout Catholics would bow before it!

[Enki]

Just finished reading the book "Why I am a Catholic" by GK Chesterton.  Like many converts, he had a much deeper knowledge and appreciation of the RC church than most cradle Catholics.

The last sentence of this book aptly sums up the essence and aims of my postings on this thread:

But let there be one night when things grow luminous from within: and one day when men seek for all that is buried in themselves, and discover, where she is indeed hidden, behind locked gates and shuttered windows, and doors thrice bolted, the spirit of liberty.

I would have thought that the spirit of liberty would show itself in the actions and the thoughts of one professing to be infused by it, unless one's idea of liberty is simply an idea which can attach itself to any subjective interpretation, however distorted. It seems to me that a person brainwashed could easily claim that they have the spirit of liberty within them, whilst showing the complete opposite to any outside observer.

Sadly, your persistence with all manner of assertions, your tendency to limit and distort the meanings of words and your complete ignoring of logical and rational  arguments that are put before you, from this observer's viewpoint,  suggest that  liberty of thought is essentially alien to you, at least in your present state.

[Nearly Sane]

If a robotic pope held office spouting the RCC dogma, I suspect some devout Catholics would bow before it!

One of the great sci fi books, imo


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pope

[ippy]

Just finished reading the book "Why I am a Catholic" by GK Chesterton.  Like many converts, he had a much deeper knowledge and appreciation of the RC church than most cradle Catholics.

The last sentence of this book aptly sums up the essence and aims of my postings on this thread:

But let there be one night when things grow luminous from within: and one day when men seek for all that is buried in themselves, and discover, where she is indeed hidden, behind locked gates and shuttered windows, and doors thrice bolted, the spirit of liberty.

 

Can't see anything particularly deep about sponsoring unsupported unsupportable beliefs of any kind in any way, what good can it do to give up on reason and rationality?

Regards and commiserations to you Alan, ippy.

[Alan Burns]

Just finished reading the book "Why I am a Catholic" by GK Chesterton.  Like many converts, he had a much deeper knowledge and appreciation of the RC church than most cradle Catholics.

The last sentence of this book aptly sums up the essence and aims of my postings on this thread:

But let there be one night when things grow luminous from within: and one day when men seek for all that is buried in themselves, and discover, where she is indeed hidden, behind locked gates and shuttered windows, and doors thrice bolted, the spirit of liberty.

For the benefit of some who may have not fully understood Chesterton's quote, by "spirit of liberty" he is of course referring to the human soul.

[torridon]

For the benefit of some who may have not fully understood Chesterton's quote, by "spirit of liberty" he is of course referring to the human soul.

It strikes me a curious choice for someone valuing freedom of thought to choose an authoritarian church where free thinkers and free thinking are frowned upon.

[Gordon]

For the benefit of some who may have not fully understood Chesterton's quote, by "spirit of liberty" he is of course referring to the human soul.

Even so, that hardly improves the silliness of the sentiment he expresses.

[Roses]

For the benefit of some who may have not fully understood Chesterton's quote, by "spirit of liberty" he is of course referring to the human soul.

The existence of which is in doubt in the sense in which you mean that term.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

For the benefit of some who may have not fully understood Chesterton's quote, by "spirit of liberty" he is of course referring to the human soul.

There's a certain irony in you referring to a "spirit of liberty" given how enslaved you are by some very bad ideas, but in any case what you were actually asked to do was to produce even one argument for "god" that's logically sound. Shouldn't be too hard for you should it, and just think what a galvanising effect such an argument would have on your efforts to proselytise here. Over to you then...

[Enki]

For the benefit of some who may have not fully understood Chesterton's quote, by "spirit of liberty" he is of course referring to the human soul.

I see no reason whatever to change what I have already said. Chesterton's idea that nine out of ten new ideas are simply old mistakes, whether true or not, is not any reason to accept that:

The Catholic Church has for one of her chief duties that of preventing people from making those old mistakes; from making them over and over again forever, as people always do if they are left to themselves.

This is simply a blueprint for imposing authoritarian rigidity and is the very antithesis of freedom of thought.

[ippy]

For the benefit of some who may have not fully understood Chesterton's quote, by "spirit of liberty" he is of course referring to the human soul.

That's the trouble most of us do understand why you have these ideas the difficulty is understanding how good decent people like yourself are so taken in by a collection of so many unsupportable ideas, unless as Blue says in his last post to you with obvious reference to some form of justification not yet seen coming from your direction, over to you Alan? 

Commiserations to you Alan, ippy.

[Alan Burns]

I doubt that the 'spirit of liberty' is to be found lurking anywhere within the confines of the authoritative rigidity that is the RCC.

It strikes me a curious choice for someone valuing freedom of thought to choose an authoritarian church where free thinkers and free thinking are frowned upon.

These replies aptly illustrate the misconceptions many people have about the RC church.
Chesterton explains in considerable detail in his book why these stereotypical views are wrong.

[Gordon]

These replies aptly illustrate the misconceptions many people have about the RC church.
Chesterton explains in considerable detail in his book why these stereotypical views are wrong.

Super - so why no female RC priests?

[Roses]

Super - so why no female RC priests?

Very good question.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

These replies aptly illustrate the misconceptions many people have about the RC church.
Chesterton explains in considerable detail in his book why these stereotypical views are wrong.

So why not tell us where Chesterton explains that catholics should think for themselves rather than treat the pronouncements of the Pope as authoritative?

Oh, and while you're about it any news on providing just one argument that isn't fallacious to indicate that your belief "god" is justified?

[Alan Burns]

AB,

So why not tell us where Chesterton explains that catholics should think for themselves rather than treat the pronouncements of the Pope as authoritative?

And can I ask you to say how you can think for yourself when you proclaim that all your thoughts are predetermined by physically controlled subconscious brain activity?

Chesterton highlights the freedom enabled within us by the power of our human soul.  Freedom to think.  Freedom to act.  Freedom to recognise and choose between good and evil.

[Stranger]

And can I ask you to say how you can think for yourself when you proclaim that all your thoughts are predetermined by physically controlled subconscious brain activity?

Same way as all the other times you've robotically repeated this sort of silly question and totally ignored the answers.

Chesterton highlights the freedom enabled within us by the power of our human soul.  Freedom to think.  Freedom to act.  Freedom to recognise and choose between good and evil.

Freedom to think is something that you seem to completely lack. You seem forever trapped in endless, pointless repetition because (so it seems) you dare not or cannot think about the answers and counterarguments. Your faith seems to have crippled your ability to reason.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

And can I ask you to say how you can think for yourself when you proclaim that all your thoughts are predetermined by physically controlled subconscious brain activity?

In exactly the same way that’s been explained to you 14,678,896 times already only for you to repeat exactly the same stupidity in response without ever once addressing the explanation you’ve already been given.

Chesterton highlights the freedom enabled within us by the power of our human soul.

No, unless he actually manages to do something you cannot do and demonstrates this “soul” in the first place then all he does is assert it, not highlight it.

Freedom to think.  Freedom to act.  Freedom to recognise and choose between good and evil.

All of we can do within a deterministic paradigm at the level of abstraction of the lived experience.

So anyway, about that coming up with just one argument that isn’t false for this “god” of yours then. Any progress on that?

[Alan Burns]

AB,

In exactly the same way that’s been explained to you 14,678,896 times already only for you to repeat exactly the same stupidity in response without ever once addressing the explanation you’ve already been given.

And as I have highlighted many times, freedom cannot exist within endless chains of physically predefined cause and effect.  Reactions produce reactions - not the conscious freedom of choice we all enjoy as human beings.

[Stranger]

And as I have highlighted many times, freedom cannot exist within endless chains of physically predefined cause and effect.  Reactions produce reactions - not the conscious freedom of choice we all enjoy as human beings.

-sigh-

Here we go again - the endless, pointless, robotic, thought-free repetition produced by an indoctrinated mind, incapable of or unwilling to face up to the answers that have already been given countless times before.

If you have "conscious freedom of choice" why not use it to stop repeating yourself and ignoring what other people have been saying to you?

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

And as I have highlighted many times, freedom cannot exist within endless chains of physically predefined cause and effect.  Reactions produce reactions - not the conscious freedom of choice we all enjoy as human beings.

And as I have explained to you many times before, the thing you think you’re “highlighting” is utter bullshit. At the level of abstraction that’s the everyday lived experience we all “choose” things all the time. At a deeper, more logically robust level of abstraction though this experience of choosing cannot be correct because it’s logically impossible.

Address that or not as you wish, but at least have the decency to stop pretending it hasn’t been explained to you countless times already.

Oh, and while I'm here - any progress on coming up with an argument for "god" that isn't false?

[Gordon]

And as I have highlighted many times, freedom cannot exist within endless chains of physically predefined cause and effect.

So you have, but repeating it won't correct the logical mess you've created for yourself.[/quote]

Reactions produce reactions - not the conscious freedom of choice we all enjoy as human beings.

Which is just another reaction whether or not we are fully aware of all that is influencing our reactions: it may feel 'free' but it really isn't.