Searching for GOD...

[ippy]

It is a blessing from Christian churches intended for the whole United Kingdom, not just fellow believers.
I felt it was worth sharing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUtll3mNj5U

Merely the thought of the content of your YouTube video Alan, yuk, puke, no doubt they're mostly, mistakenly, thinking of accruing as many heavenly brownie points as they can and quiet a few of them like in my wife's gospel choir non-believers but love the singing.

Funnily enough Alan, the non-believers in her gospel choir outnumber the believers.

Commiserations Alan.

[Alan Burns]

Merely the thought of the content of your YouTube video Alan, yuk, puke, no doubt they're mostly, mistakenly, thinking of accruing as many heavenly brownie points as they can and quiet a few of them like in my wife's gospel choir non-believers but love the singing.

Funnily enough Alan, the non-believers in her gospel choir outnumber the believers.

Commiserations Alan.

It is good that your wife has some contact with those who have come to know God.  I hope and pray that she too will one day come to know God's love, and perhaps she will help you to discover it too.  There is always hope for us all, Ippy.

[Roses]

No one KNOWS god, even if it exists, which is very doubtful. It is the extensive human imagination, which creates the idea of an external entity, which can seem very real to believers. 

[ekim]

....... quiet a few of them like in my wife's gospel choir non-believers but love the singing.  Funnily enough Alan, the non-believers in her gospel choir outnumber the believers.

That doesn't surprise me.  Alan uses the word 'blessing' which is akin to 'blissing' or joyfulness.  I suspect that the singing, which is quite like repetitive chanting in harmony, can cause the individual to lose their individuality and feel the unity of the group and this invokes joyfulness.  In this respect, it's a bit like meditation, and the meaning of the words do not have to have a significance.  It doesn't matter if they are chanting Amen or Aum, the inner joy or bliss can be the attraction.  However, repetition of key words can be used to indoctrinate.  The importance is the inner 'heavenly' state rather than the doctrine.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

It is good that your wife has some contact with those who have come to know God.

You have no idea whether they have "come to know God", and nor for that matter whether you have either. Absent a cogent argument to demonstrate the claim "God" in the first place, the most you can say is that they (and you) have come to a belief in "God" (and not in any old god either, just the one with which they and you happen to be culturally most familiar).     

I hope and pray that she too will one day come to know God's love, and perhaps she will help you to discover it too.

Seems unlikely, but maybe you could help him by finally producing the logic you claimed to have for their being a god at all? If you really hope as you claim, why keep it a secret?

There is always hope for us all, Ippy.

In your case, I think I'll make an exception...

[torridon]

It is good that your wife has some contact with those who have come to know God.  I hope and pray that she too will one day come to know God's love, and perhaps she will help you to discover it too.  There is always hope for us all, Ippy.

it is a shame God cannot rock up and help people suffering with Covid-19.  That love you keep talking about sure doesn't manifest in any tangible way when and where it is actually needed

[Stranger]

It is good that your wife has some contact with those who have come to know God.  I hope and pray that she too will one day come to know God's love, and perhaps she will help you to discover it too.

Except that you've given us no reason whatsoever to think that this god of yours, or its supposed love, is a reality, and every reason to think that the belief in it causes irrationality and dishonesty.

[ippy]

It is good that your wife has some contact with those who have come to know God.  I hope and pray that she too will one day come to know God's love, and perhaps she will help you to discover it too.  There is always hope for us all, Ippy.

Try convincing me about your invisible friend Alan, you'll have a lot more luck converting me than my wife.

Commiserations Alan.

P S I like to hear Gospel choirs going full tilt myself, it's easy to ignore the silly words content side of the singing.

[ippy]

No one KNOWS god, even if it exists, which is very doubtful. It is the extensive human imagination, which creates the idea of an external entity, which can seem very real to believers.

Sad innit L R, I'm sure he has conjured up some sort of image of whatever he thinks this god thing of his is, he's even managed to convinced himself he knows it too, shame poor devil, (Oops).

Regards, ippy.

[Alan Burns]

it is a shame God cannot rock up and help people suffering with Covid-19.  That love you keep talking about sure doesn't manifest in any tangible way when and where it is actually needed

God's love manifests through people.  We are all God's creation made in God's image with the freedom to love as He loves.  Love exists through the gift of free will which enables us to resist the temptations of self centred preservation and use our talents for the good of those who need it more than we do.

[Nearly Sane]

God's love manifests through people.  We are all God's creation made in God's image with the freedom to love as He loves.  Love exists through the gift of free will which enables us to resist the temptations of self centred preservation and use our talents for the good of those who need it more than we do.

Drivel

[Owlswing]

 Drivel

I am so glad that I saw this before I wrote my reply to Mr Burns.

I was going to echo your sentiments but was not going to be quite so polite!

Thanks you, Sir.
 

[torridon]

God's love manifests through people.  We are all God's creation made in God's image with the freedom to love as He loves.  Love exists through the gift of free will which enables us to resist the temptations of self centred preservation and use our talents for the good of those who need it more than we do.

None of which is evidence for some supernatural being investing some of his powers in humans.  People will do good and will do bad anyway as they resolve their conflicting emotions at an individual level.  In the twenty first century with education free at point of delivery there is no justification for indulging medieval superstitions, all you need do is go out, look at people, figure out their behaviours in an honest way without recourse to such irrational thinking.

[Roses]

God's love manifests through people.  We are all God's creation made in God's image with the freedom to love as He loves.  Love exists through the gift of free will which enables us to resist the temptations of self centred preservation and use our talents for the good of those who need it more than we do.

A statement which is only a belief, nothing more.

[Alan Burns]

None of which is evidence for some supernatural being investing some of his powers in humans.  People will do good and will do bad anyway as they resolve their conflicting emotions at an individual level.  In the twenty first century with education free at point of delivery there is no justification for indulging medieval superstitions, all you need do is go out, look at people, figure out their behaviours in an honest way without recourse to such irrational thinking.

And all of this apparently driven through the physically determined subconscious brain activity occurring before we become aware of what we are doing!
I think not, Torri.
We all have freedom to choose between good and bad.
We all have freedom to contemplate the reality in which we live.
Just as I have freedom to choose the content of this post.
You need to get to grips with a reality in which we have freedom to choose our own thoughts, words, actions - and our destiny.
A freedom for which there can be no physical explanation, and which no amount of intellectual theorising can take away.

[Stranger]

And all of this apparently driven through the physically determined subconscious brain activity occurring before we become aware of what we are doing!
I think not, Torri.
We all have freedom to choose between good and bad.
We all have freedom to contemplate the reality in which we live.
Just as I have freedom to choose the content of this post.
You need to get to grips with a reality in which we have freedom to choose our own thoughts, words, actions - and our destiny.
A freedom for which there can be no physical explanation, and which no amount of intellectual theorising can take away.

Mindless foot-stamping.

Where is the logic you said you had?

[torridon]

And all of this apparently driven through the physically determined subconscious brain activity occurring before we become aware of what we are doing!
I think not, Torri.
We all have freedom to choose between good and bad.
We all have freedom to contemplate the reality in which we live.
Just as I have freedom to choose the content of this post.
You need to get to grips with a reality in which we have freedom to choose our own thoughts, words, actions - and our destiny.
A freedom for which there can be no physical explanation, and which no amount of intellectual theorising can take away.

The freedom needs no explanation.  If nobody and no thing get in my way, then I am free to do these things.  That is not some spooky supernatural powers that I am exercising, it is merely circumstantial.  This has been explained a multiplicity of times and yet you are still struggling with such simple concepts.  Freedom is merely the absence of coercion or obstruction that would otherwise impede me from exercising my will.

Likewise, that conscious awareness is preceded by and derived from pre-conscious mind states needs no special justification. Everything takes a certain amount of time and this obviously includes cognitive processes.

[Gordon]

And all of this apparently driven through the physically determined subconscious brain activity occurring before we become aware of what we are doing!

That is what the evidence suggests (whether you like it or not).

I think not, Torri.

That will be because in this regard your thinking is flawed.

We all have freedom to choose between good and bad.

Depending on what one decides is 'good' or 'bad' in the first place, on personal traits and preferences and on an assessment of consequences, you can choose to do whatever you're prevented from doing by constraints - so not really quite as free as you imagine.   

We all have freedom to contemplate the reality in which we live.

Only to the degree that we can, which doesn't encompass all of 'reality'.

Just as I have freedom to choose the content of this post.

So what: even then the content is utterly predictable, and I doubt you could have posted otherwise.

You need to get to grips with a reality in which we have freedom to choose our own thoughts, words, actions - and our destiny.

A freedom for which there can be no physical explanation, and which no amount of intellectual theorising can take away.

And we end with the usual flourish of fallacies: in terms of 'freedom' of thought you are, ironically, as predictable as a very predictable thing that is especially predictable.

[Alan Burns]

Why would a god of the omnis cause 50,000-odd people in this country alone to die ....

They may not have died in vain.
Who knows what dreadful consequences may have occurred if the output of greenhouse gasses had continued to increase unabated to fuel a catastrophic increase in global warming?
The decrease in global pollution which has occurred over the last few weeks is beyond any environmentalist's wildest dreams.

[torridon]

They may not have died in vain.
Who knows what dreadful consequences may have occurred if the output of greenhouse gasses had continued to increase unabated to fuel a catastrophic increase in global warming?
The decrease in global pollution which has occurred over the last few weeks is beyond any environmentalist's wildest dreams.

Don't kid yourself - this lock down may be sufficient to bring the pandemic infection and mortality curves under control, but it comes nowhere near making a significant difference to the problem of anthropogenic global warming.  CO2 and NO2 emissions down 20% or so during February and March, perhaps that might translate into 5% - 10% down across the whole year.  Future analyses of annual carbon dioxide output will reveal just a small anomaly for 2020 in the otherwise relentless upward trajectory of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions.

[Alan Burns]

That will be because in this regard your thinking is flawed.

But if the consequences of my physically driven subconscious brain activity conflicts with the consequences of your physically driven subconscious brain activity, what precisely is it that can verify your personal accusation of "flawed" to be deemed correct?  Does your subconscious brain activity somehow claim superiority over mine without any means of conscious verification?

I know I have asked this before, but I do not recall getting any meaningful explanation.

[Stranger]

I know I have asked this before, but I do not recall getting any meaningful explanation.

Here's a tip: if you think there is something wrong with any explanations you get, try actually engaging with them, say why you think they are wrong, and take some notice of the answers. If you just ignore the answers and repeat the same questions, as if nobody had said anything at all, you look like an idiot.

But if the consequences of my physically driven subconscious brain activity conflicts with the consequences of your physically driven subconscious brain activity, what precisely is it that can verify your personal accusation of "flawed" to be deemed correct?  Does your subconscious brain activity somehow claim superiority over mine without any means of conscious verification?

It's unclear what you even mean by "conscious verification". As I've explained to you multiple times, consciousness is not the issue. Consciousness is a part of the thinking process, if you want to call that "conscious verification" fine, but it has nothing to do with the central contradiction of your version of freedom. How does having the contradictory ability to have done something differently, without introducing randomness, help with any sort of verification?

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

They may not have died in vain.
Who knows what dreadful consequences may have occurred if the output of greenhouse gasses had continued to increase unabated to fuel a catastrophic increase in global warming?
The decrease in global pollution which has occurred over the last few weeks is beyond any environmentalist's wildest dreams.

What is this contemptible fucking idiocy? So your god decided that global warming was a bad thing, and that the best way to take the edge off would be to have 50,000-odd people in this country alone who were no more polluting then anyone else die very unpleasantly?

What kind of scientifically illiterate, genocidal psychopath of a god would do a thing like that when presumably he could just magic up some non-polluting fuel instead if he wanted to?

This’ll be lost on you, but you’ve just shown the morally disgusting conclusions casuists can arrive at when they dream up anything at all to justify the evidence that flatly contradicts the mindless bollocks they belch about a loving god. Shame on you.       

[Enki]

But if the consequences of my physically driven subconscious brain activity conflicts with the consequences of your physically driven subconscious brain activity, what precisely is it that can verify your personal accusation of "flawed" to be deemed correct?  Does your subconscious brain activity somehow claim superiority over mine without any means of conscious verification?

I know I have asked this before, but I do not recall getting any meaningful explanation.

If your thinking process rejects or ignores logic and evidence without coming up with any viable, well reasoned alternative,  if your thinking process simply states assertion after assertion without any form of substantive and reasoned argument(especially when asked),  if you tend to distort the meanings of words to suit your own personal viewpoint (E.g. your use of the word 'freedom' in post 40089), then I would also suggest that your thinking is flawed.

It really is up to you as to whether you reject this and simply continue posting your proselytising messages or you change your attitude and learn from your mistakes.

Incidentally, I once had to relearn my whole attitude towards gay people, because reason and logic did not support my previous emotional homophobic stance. Now, for some years,  I have accepted  gay people,  as I hope they accept me,  as equal in every way.

[Gordon]

But if the consequences of my physically driven subconscious brain activity conflicts with the consequences of your physically driven subconscious brain activity, what precisely is it that can verify your personal accusation of "flawed" to be deemed correct?

That it can be shown that you routinely commit logical fallacies: these are reasoning errors that have been regularly pointed out to you and yet you continue to commit them. This illustrates that your thinking is flawed.

Does your subconscious brain activity somehow claim superiority over mine without any means of conscious verification?

I don't claim superiority, and if it were pointed out me that I was using fallacies I would hope I'd review what I'd been saying. What is 'conscious verification' and how does it operate, and how does it get you out of the logical conundrum you've created for yourself.?

I know I have asked this before, but I do not recall getting any meaningful explanation.

You've had plenty of explanations, Alan, but your tactics of equivocation, hyperbole and denial in an attempt to sustain your faith result in you having insufficient insight - hence you go lumbering on, and on, and on.