Searching for GOD...

[Enki]

Meanwhile the guardian angels of some Christians in Oregon were having a fag while they got shot

It is a sad fact that there is evil in this world, and much of it is targeted at Christians.  God can't remove evil without removing the free will of individual beings, but He has promised that He will help us to cope with whatever comes if we can put our trust and faith in Him.  It is not easy for us to see the big picture, so I put my trust in the One who came to save us from sin and death - to guide us in everything we do.

But your guardian angel can remind you where you left your car, but murderer with a gun too much of a stretch.

I can only presume that if the gunman had listened to his Guarian Angel instead of an evil demon he would not have fired the shots.

And I can only presume one/some of the following:

1) All the christians who were killed either were not aware of or didn't listen to their guardian angels who advised them not to be in the line of fire.

2) All the Christans who were killed listened to an evil demon who wanted to put them in the line of fire.

3) The guardian angels didn't see this tragedy coming, and were therefore powerless to help the Christians.

4) Perhaps though it's a case that some of these guardian angels are just not fit for purpose.

5) There are no such things as evil demons or guardian angels, and events proceeded to their natural and tragic conclusions.

Point 1 suggests a God who either puts free will way above the killing of innocents and/or doesn't make it clear that there is such a thing as a guardian angel.

Point 2 suggests the same, but this time with the added influence of an evil agent which God has created.

Point 3 suggests a rather inept God.

Point 4 in which case He who is in charge bears the ultimate responsibility. You have obviously got a good one of course who makes sure that your car will not be towed away.

Point 5 suggests a natural and human scenario where a deranged human being was able to pursue actions which led to a sad and tragic ending, and where those killed would have no reason not to be in the line of fire.

[Rhiannon]

You missed out the possibility of this all being part of God's perfect plan, Enki. In which case by not interfering the Oregon victims' guardian angels were acting in their best interests.

Perhaps Alan's car not getting towed is also part of the perfect plan.

[Enki]

You missed out the possibility of this all being part of God's perfect plan, Enki. In which case by not interfering the Oregon victims' guardian angels were acting in their best interests.

Perhaps Alan's car not getting towed is also part of the perfect plan.

True, Rhi. In fact he's already mentioned it in post 367 when he says:

It is not easy for us to see the big picture, so I put my trust in the One who came to save us from sin and death - to guide us in everything we do.

But I tend to discount this because it presents no arguments at all. For instance I could say that it is God's plan that Alan is being deceived by his evil demon. it's just that we can't see the 'big picture'. Mere assertion on my part, of course.(if I believed it, which I don't)

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Meanwhile the guardian angels of some Christians in Oregon were having a fag while they got shot

That's right have a laugh about it, or blame God or whatever .....of course anybody expressing a distaste of Christians or Christianity is in no way connected with this or are putting out shit which might make this a bit more likely, are they?

[Shaker]

No, in no way connected at all.

Glad to help.

[Nearly Sane]

Meanwhile the guardian angels of some Christians in Oregon were having a fag while they got shot

That's right have a laugh about it, or blame God or whatever .....of course anybody expressing a distaste of Christians or Christianity is in no way connected with this or are putting out shit which might make this a bit more likely, are they?

Try again, this time I suggest you try and write coherently.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, in no way connected at all.

Glad to help.

Glad to help my case for accusing people like Nearly sane for special pleading. Moderate religious people aid and abet religious terrorists just by existing. But verbal antichristians cannot do the same with violent ones.

[Nearly Sane]

No, in no way connected at all.

Glad to help.

Glad to help my case for accusing people like Nearly sane for special pleading. Moderate religious people aid and abet religious terrorists just by existing. But verbal antichristians cannot do the same with violent ones.

Why are you lying about what I have said? Why is it that you consistently lie like thus?

[floo]

Meanwhile the guardian angels of some Christians in Oregon were having a fag while they got shot

That's right have a laugh about it, or blame God or whatever .....of course anybody expressing a distaste of Christians or Christianity is in no way connected with this or are putting out shit which might make this a bit more likely, are they?

The flipping deity was probably sitting on the loo at the time!

[Alan Burns]

Meanwhile the guardian angels of some Christians in Oregon were having a fag while they got shot

It is a sad fact that there is evil in this world, and much of it is targeted at Christians.  God can't remove evil without removing the free will of individual beings, but He has promised that He will help us to cope with whatever comes if we can put our trust and faith in Him.  It is not easy for us to see the big picture, so I put my trust in the One who came to save us from sin and death - to guide us in everything we do.

But your guardian angel can remind you where you left your car, but murderer with a gun too much of a stretch.

I can only presume that if the gunman had listened to his Guarian Angel instead of an evil demon he would not have fired the shots.

And I can only presume one/some of the following:

1) All the christians who were killed either were not aware of or didn't listen to their guardian angels who advised them not to be in the line of fire.

2) All the Christans who were killed listened to an evil demon who wanted to put them in the line of fire.

3) The guardian angels didn't see this tragedy coming, and were therefore powerless to help the Christians.

4) Perhaps though it's a case that some of these guardian angels are just not fit for purpose.

5) There are no such things as evil demons or guardian angels, and events proceeded to their natural and tragic conclusions.

Point 1 suggests a God who either puts free will way above the killing of innocents and/or doesn't make it clear that there is such a thing as a guardian angel.

Point 2 suggests the same, but this time with the added influence of an evil agent which God has created.

Point 3 suggests a rather inept God.

Point 4 in which case He who is in charge bears the ultimate responsibility. You have obviously got a good one of course who makes sure that your car will not be towed away.

Point 5 suggests a natural and human scenario where a deranged human being was able to pursue actions which led to a sad and tragic ending, and where those killed would have no reason not to be in the line of fire.

All I know is that God helps those who have faith in Him by whatever means He chooses.

[Shaker]

That's what you believe, not what you know.

[Alan Burns]

That's what you believe, not what you know.

I may speculate about how things are done, but I know God exists with no shred of doubt in my mind and I know He loves us.

[Shaker]

No, you don't.

[torridon]

That's what you believe, not what you know.

I may speculate about how things are done, but I know God exists with no shred of doubt in my mind and I know He loves us.

People who do not entertain doubt, are among the least likely to be correct, ime. They can also be amongst the most dangerous people; it takes that kind of pathological certainty to give up your life in Jihad. A little bit of doubt is good for us.

[floo]

That's what you believe, not what you know.

I may speculate about how things are done, but I know God exists with no shred of doubt in my mind and I know He loves us.

People who do not entertain doubt, are among the least likely to be correct, ime. They can also be amongst the most dangerous people; it takes that kind of pathological certainty to give up your life in Jihad. A little bit of doubt is good for us.

Agreed.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, you don't.

Alan Burns what are you doing not having the same definitions of ''knowledge and belief'' as Shaker.

Shaker has a Dawkins Gold Card and cannot possibly be wrong.

[Shaker]

No, you don't.

Alan Burns what are you doing not having the same definitions of ''knowledge and belief'' as Shaker.

... or anybody else who knows what the words mean and the difference between them.

I see the Dawkins obsession is as strong as ever, Vlad

[Alan Burns]

That's what you believe, not what you know.

I may speculate about how things are done, but I know God exists with no shred of doubt in my mind and I know He loves us.

People who do not entertain doubt, are among the least likely to be correct, ime. They can also be amongst the most dangerous people; it takes that kind of pathological certainty to give up your life in Jihad. A little bit of doubt is good for us.

I just can't bring myself to doubt the existence of someone with whom I have a deep personal relationship.

[Shaker]

Interesting new twist on the concept of relationship you have there, Alan.

[ippy]

No, you don't.

Alan Burns what are you doing not having the same definitions of ''knowledge and belief'' as Shaker.

Shaker has a Dawkins Gold Card and cannot possibly be wrong.

Vladicus, Shakers view on this subject has nothing to do with R D; however it does have a lot to do with delusional idiocy, making statements that cannot be supported.

ippy

P S, All hail o Richard, the chosen one!

[savillerow]

Msg 4393 AB "I just cant bring myself . . ."  I can admire you for this statement. What do you think might happen  if you let go? Its OK you know. Ive got no faith and as the Beatles once said "I feel fine"

[Enki]

That's what you believe, not what you know.

I may speculate about how things are done, but I know God exists with no shred of doubt in my mind and I know He loves us.

Which is the classic assertion made by all sorts of people as regards their own particular faith brand.

The fact that you think you know something, by itself, is no evidence that your God exists, apart from in your own mind, of course.

However, as long as it satisfies you, and if it is not detrimental to your/others' well being, then I have no problem with it. I do reserve the right however to continue to point out what I regard as inconsistencies in such statements of faith(e.g. the idea of guardian angels/evil demons) as regards the existence of such a benevolent omni God.

[Alan Burns]

but I know God exists with no shred of doubt in my mind and I know He loves us.

Well if that is the case the deity has a very perverted idea of love!

AB's friend, is the subject of many well meaning prayers. No doubt if she recovers the deity will get all the praise, but if she doesn't it won't get blamed. Surely if it is capable of healing her it should do so p.d.q. instead of putting her poor family through such terrible pain and distress! That would be the loving thing to do!

I humbly admit that my own idea of what the best thing to do is probably wrong, so I hold on to the bible claim that everything will happen for the good if we put our faith in God.  I am not saying that God deliberately contrives to make us suffer - that is surely brought about other means, but God has the power to bring good out of any situation.

[savillerow]

"god has the power to bring good out of any situation" whoops slipping back again.

[torridon]

I humbly admit that my own idea of what the best thing to do is probably wrong, so I hold on to the bible claim that everything will happen for the good if we put our faith in God. 

and by such attitudes you close your mind to the inconsistencies in your thinking, and why I say that faith is a bad thing.  It's a case of preferring selection bias over facing up to and actually dealing with pieces of your jigsaw that don't fit.