Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

A common theme from non believers is:

Why does God not make Himself known?  Why does He hide?
and
Why does God not do more miracles when needed?

Just thinking about this - If God did these things, would God be appreciated - or would God just be taken for granted and used to help us indulge our own self centred desires?

This world is not Heaven.  In today's Gospel reading we have the beatitudes which turns our human thinking upside down.
In order to enter Heaven, we need to get rid of the self centred desires of this world and appreciate what God has given us - not take it for granted.
In our life on this earth we have the opportunity to freely reject the temptations of this world and put our faith and trust in God and follow His teachings in order to reach true fulfilment in our earthly lives and enter into His kingdom.

[Nearly Sane]

A common theme from non believers is:

Why does God not make Himself known?  Why does He hide?
and
Why does God not do more miracles when needed?

Just thinking about this - If God did these things, would God be appreciated - or would God just be taken for granted and used to help us indulge our own self centred desires?

This world is not Heaven.  In today's Gospel reading we have the beatitudes which turns our human thinking upside down.
In order to enter Heaven, we need to get rid of the self centred desires of this world and appreciate what God has given us - not take it for granted.
In our life on this earth we have the opportunity to freely reject the temptations of this world and put our faith and trust in God and follow His teachings in order to reach true fulfilment in our earthly lives and enter into His kingdom.

So that children die in pain from cancer while your god finds your contact lens is just part of its cunning plan? As ever you worship a psychopath playing with its toys.

[Outrider]

A common theme from non believers is:

Why does God not make Himself known?  Why does He hide?
and
Why does God not do more miracles when needed?

Just thinking about this - If God did these things, would God be appreciated - or would God just be taken for granted and used to help us indulge our own self centred desires?

You mean like we're apparently being put through the wringer for your god's own self-centred desires? (For he is a jealous god, after all...)

This world is not Heaven.

Why not? The blood sacrifice, for what it's worth, has already been spilt, such forgiveness for someone else's transgressions has already been given, why is this not heaven?

In today's Gospel reading we have the beatitudes which turns our human thinking upside down. In order to enter Heaven, we need to get rid of the self centred desires of this world and appreciate what God has given us - not take it for granted.

Childhood cancers. Infectious disease pandemics. Famine. Autism. Homophobia and misogyny. Let's all kneel down and 'appreciate' that, let's be be generous, mixed bag of gifts.

In our life on this earth we have the opportunity to freely reject the temptations of this world and put our faith and trust in God and follow His teachings in order to reach true fulfilment in our earthly lives and enter into His kingdom.

Not utilise our human faculties to live our human lives in favour of self-deprivation on the off-chance that one poorly evidenced (at best) afterlife of the many claimed turns out to be the case...

O.

[Maeght]

A common theme from non believers is:

Why does God not make Himself known?  Why does He hide?
and
Why does God not do more miracles when needed?

Just thinking about this - If God did these things, would God be appreciated - or would God just be taken for granted and used to help us indulge our own self centred desires?

This world is not Heaven.  In today's Gospel reading we have the beatitudes which turns our human thinking upside down.
In order to enter Heaven, we need to get rid of the self centred desires of this world and appreciate what God has given us - not take it for granted.
In our life on this earth we have the opportunity to freely reject the temptations of this world and put our faith and trust in God and follow His teachings in order to reach true fulfilment in our earthly lives and enter into His kingdom.

God wants to be appreciated?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Maeght,

God wants to be appreciated?

It's worse than that - worshipped (or so we're told). Leaving aside the brute thuggishness of AB's god, he's a petulant and insecure deity too it seems. 

I sometime think that, if I had to make a case for AB's god, it would be easier to make it for an evil deity than for a good one.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Maeght,

It's worse than that - worshipped (or so we're told). Leaving aside the brute thuggishness of AB's god, he's a petulant and insecure deity too it seems. 

I sometime think that, if I had to make a case for AB's god, it would be easier to make it for an evil deity than for a good one.

I'm puzzled at where a British atheist particularly one ignorant in the ways of his opponents, would come into contact with Worship other than in terms of the worship of mammon or self regard.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

I'm puzzled at where a British atheist particularly one ignorant in the ways of his opponents, would come into contact with Worship other than in terms of the worship of mammon or self regard.

Did that mean something in your head when you typed it?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

Did that mean something in your head when you typed it?

You seem to be caricaturing what religious people would understand by the word worship. This doesn't have, of course, to be deliberate. It could be through assuming more knowledge on a matter than you actually possess.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

You seem to be caricaturing what religious people would understand by the word worship. This doesn't have, of course, to be deliberate. It could be through assuming more knowledge on a matter than you actually possess.

I did no such thing. I just referred to "worship" with no particular take on what it entails. If you seriously think "religious people" collectively somehow mean something by that term other than its standard dictionary definition though by all means try to support that claim if you wish.   

[Alan Burns]

Worship is a two way thing.
Being in communion with God is an amazing, joyful experience, but sadly there are many who can't have this experience while they seek reasons not to believe in God.

[Nearly Sane]

Worship is a two way thing.
Being in communion with God is an amazing, joyful experience, but sadly there are many who can't have this experience if they seek reasons not to believe in God.

This is you yet again claiming people are lying about just not believing in your god.

[Maeght]

Worship is a two way thing.
Being in communion with God is an amazing, joyful experience, but sadly there are many who can't have this experience while they seek reasons not to believe in God.

You really think many people are seeking reasons not to believe?

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

Worship is a two way thing.

No doubt you think that to be true, though you have a long way to go to justify that claim – establishing that there’s a god to reciprocate for one.

Being in communion with God is an amazing, joyful experience, but sadly there are many who can't have this experience while they seek reasons not to believe in God.

Wrong again – people no more “seek reasons not to believe in God” than you seek reasons not to believe in leprechauns. It’s simply the case that a-theists and a-leprechaunists alike haven’t been persuaded by the claims made by people who believe in each of them.

This is such a simple point – why do you always get it so wrong?     

[Dicky Underpants]

Worship is a two way thing.
Being in communion with God is an amazing, joyful experience, but sadly there are many who can't have this experience while they seek reasons not to believe in God.

Yeah - you keep  telling yourself that, Alan. I suppose it's better than facing up to the uncomfortable fact that many people have done just the opposite. I'm afraid the naive formula of expecting the verse "behold I stand at the door and knock" to reveal divine truth if followed, just doesn't stand up to stern reality. Even if you think God helped to find your contact lens.

[Alan Burns]

Why not? The blood sacrifice, for what it's worth, has already been spilt, such forgiveness for someone else's transgressions has already been given, why is this not heaven?

As I see it there are two extreme possibilities.
God could have chosen not to bring about His creation.  None of us would exist.
At the other extreme God could create a heaven on earth where we are all free to do what we want with no consequences.
I believe this second option would in fact be hell on earth with people following their own self centred desires.
God in His wisdom has brought us into a world where we can put into practice His gift of love, and at the same time perceive the nature of evil - with the freedom to choose between the two.

[Dicky Underpants]

As I see it there are two extreme possibilities.
God could have chosen not to bring about His creation.  None of us would exist.
At the other extreme God could create a heaven on earth where we are all free to do what we want with no consequences.
I believe this second option would in fact be hell on earth with people following their own self centred desires.
God in His wisdom has brought us into a world where we can put into practice His gift of love, and at the same time perceive the nature of evil - with the freedom to choose between the two.

It is the nature of suffering, undeserved suffering, that figures so little in your homilies, Alan. You need to pay a little more attention to that. Nearly Sane and Gordon have drawn your attention to it often enough.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

As I see it there are two extreme possibilities.
God could have chosen not to bring about His creation.  None of us would exist.
At the other extreme God could create a heaven on earth where we are all free to do what we want with no consequences.

You've forgotten a third possibility: that there is no god. This option does at least fit with the observable reality that horrible things happen to innocent people all the time – which is exactly what you'd expect from a godless and indifferent universe.

It also by the way avoids your endless casuistry about why a supposedly good god would permit so much needless suffering.     

[torridon]

Worship is a two way thing.
Being in communion with God is an amazing, joyful experience, but sadly there are many who can't have this experience while they seek reasons not to believe in God.

And there are many for whom this communion is an empty experience after reaching out for God only to find a deafening silence in return.  Go figure, that's what the rest of us have done.

[Alan Burns]

And there are many for whom this communion is an empty experience after reaching out for God only to find a deafening silence in return.  Go figure, that's what the rest of us have done.

And there are many who have come to know God in so many different ways.
The negative experiences of other people cannot take away their personal relationship with God.

[Nearly Sane]

And there are many who have come to know God in so many different ways.
The negative experiences of other people cannot take away their personal relationship with God.

So people who don't find your god after searching for it are what? Stupid? Worthless? Idiots?

[Alan Burns]

AB,

You've forgotten a third possibility: that there is no god. This option does at least fit with the observable reality that horrible things happen to innocent people all the time – which is exactly what you'd expect from a godless and indifferent universe.

Could a universe just pop itself into existence without God?
Could the concept of indifference in the human mind come to exist in a universe indifferent to life?
Could you contemplate what to expect from a Godless universe without the power to consciously control your thought processes - (a power which is denied by your materialistic scenario) ?

[Alan Burns]

So people who don't find your god after searching for it are what? Stupid? Worthless? Idiots?

My advice to them is not to give up searching - leave the door open.

[Nearly Sane]

My advice to them is not to give up searching - leave the door open.

So, why is your god that murders children with leukeamia, hiding from them?

[Outrider]

As I see it there are two extreme possibilities. God could have chosen not to bring about His creation.  None of us would exist.

At the other extreme God could create a heaven on earth where we are all free to do what we want with no consequences.

I believe this second option would in fact be hell on earth with people following their own self centred desires.

Is this not what was the original plan, before the fall? A paradise on Earth?

God in His wisdom has brought us into a world where we can put into practice His gift of love, and at the same time perceive the nature of evil - with the freedom to choose between the two.

If that's the case, why is his guidebook to that 'nature of evil' so poor? Why is he depicted, at various points, as jealous, malicious, genocidal, deceptive and spiteful, painfully restrictive around haircuts, genital mutilation and dietary restrictions, but dangerously laissez-faire regarding rape and slavery? As a concept it's a little outlandish, but in the face of the evidence it just doesn't stack up.

O.

[torridon]

And there are many who have come to know God in so many different ways.
The negative experiences of other people cannot take away their personal relationship with God.

So you end up with a God that at best, is capricious, erratic, responding to some, whilst ignoring others.  Go figure.