Searching for GOD...

[Stranger]

The power to consciously interact must come from outside the natural laws of physically driven cause and effect in order to give us the freedom we all enjoy.

And, of course...

Still waiting for the "simple logical deduction" you said you had.

Where is it? Were you bearing false witness?

[jeremyp]

He's just playing stupid word games.

Actually, he made a good argument by analogy that believing in miracles is stupid.

You look in the draw and find only $50 instead of the $200 you put in. Do you conclude that the laws of nature have been broken, or that somebody has stolen £150? Similarly, if you put a dead body in a tomb and you come back two days later and the body is gone, is it more reasonable to assume a miracle or that somebody took the body?

[jeremyp]

The power to consciously interact must come from outside the natural laws of physically driven cause and effect in order to give us the freedom we all enjoy.

You just argued that the soul is part of the natural world and subject to natural laws.

You have a choice. Either the soul overrides the natural laws or it interacts with them, in which case it is subject to the natural laws.

Choose one.

[Alan Burns]

Do you not think that's pretty good evidence? Especially given that there is no evidence at all for any alternative explanation.

It depends where you choose to look.

[Alan Burns]

You just argued that the soul is part of the natural world and subject to natural laws.

I believe I have always claimed that our soul is not part of the continuum of a material universe, but that it has the power to wilfully interact within it.

You have a choice. Either the soul overrides the natural laws or it interacts with them, in which case it is subject to the natural laws.

Choose one.

Our soul simply has the power to bring about consciously intended goals by interacting within the material forces and elements of this material universe.

[Sebastian Toe]

I believe I have always claimed that our soul is not part of the continuum of a material universe.

Where this soul of yours resides, does time exist?

[jeremyp]

It depends where you choose to look.

I'm looking in places that are real. You seem to be looking in places that are made up.

[jeremyp]

I believe I have always claimed that our soul is not part of the continuum of a material universe, but that it has the power to wilfully interact within it.

If it interacts with material Universe, then it is part of the material Universe, by definition.

[Sebastian Toe]

Our soul simply has the power to bring about consciously intended goals by interacting within the material forces and elements of this material universe.

How does it interact though?
What are the processes/mechanics of said interactions?

If your response is "don't know" then that leaves your version of reality in the same state as the other version.
In other words, you claim alternate versions to yours cannot be correct because there are currently no definitions for some aspects, yet you would have everyone believe that your version, despite also not having definitions, somehow should be superior!

[Outrider]

I believe I have always claimed that our soul is not part of the continuum of a material universe, but that it has the power to wilfully interact within it.

Then we should be able to demonstrate that interaction by identifying the phenomena without any apparent causative mechanisms - do you have any evidence of that? Do you have any reason to think that such exists?

Our soul simply has the power to bring about consciously intended goals by interacting within the material forces and elements of this material universe.

Just like that, it 'simply has the power', although you can neither demonstrate it, nor the mechanism, and the trait (free will) that you need it to justify is at best questionable.

O.

[Stranger]

I believe I have always claimed that our soul is not part of the continuum of a material universe, but that it has the power to wilfully interact within it.

And ability which means that it requires a time continuum (whether it's the same one or not) and so cannot possibly have the nonsensical version of 'free will' you keep claiming for it.

And...

Still waiting for the "simple logical deduction" you said you had.

Where is it? Were you bearing false witness?

[Alan Burns]

Then we should be able to demonstrate that interaction by identifying the phenomena without any apparent causative mechanisms - do you have any evidence of that? Do you have any reason to think that such exists?

Just like that, it 'simply has the power', although you can neither demonstrate it, nor the mechanism, and the trait (free will) that you need it to justify is at best questionable.

O.

It is demonstrated by every thought, word or deed I consciously choose to make of my own free will.  The materialistic alternative would be that my conscious awareness is merely a window on what has already been determined by the laws of physics and chemistry acting on material elements.

[Alan Burns]

Actually, he made a good argument by analogy that believing in miracles is stupid.

You look in the draw and find only $50 instead of the $200 you put in. Do you conclude that the laws of nature have been broken, or that somebody has stolen £150? Similarly, if you put a dead body in a tomb and you come back two days later and the body is gone, is it more reasonable to assume a miracle or that somebody took the body?

No corpse was ever found, but there were hundreds of sightings of the risen Jesus.

[Stranger]

It is demonstrated by every thought, word or deed I consciously choose to make of my own free will.

Utterly baseless and absurd assertion. Looks a lot like a barefaced lie to me, considering how many times it has been pointed out to you.

The materialistic alternative would be that my conscious awareness is merely a window on what has already been determined by the laws of physics and chemistry acting on material elements.

Appeal to consequences fallacy (logical dimwittery).

Still waiting for the "simple logical deduction" you said you had.

Where is it? Were you bearing false witness?

[Maeght]

No corpse was ever found, but there were hundreds of sightings of the risen Jesus.

That's what is claimed but there is no evidence to support it.

[Nearly Sane]

No corpse was ever found, but there were hundreds of sightings of the risen Jesus.

So people are being abducted by UFOs.

[Sebastian Toe]

No corpse was ever found, but there were hundreds of sightings of the risen Jesus.

There were more than hundreds of sightings of the sun zig zagging across the sky at Fatima in 1917.
Did that really happen?

[Stranger]

No corpse was ever found, but there were hundreds of sightings of the risen Jesus.

You mean you have an old book of myths that says that.

[Gordon]

No corpse was ever found, but there were hundreds of sightings of the risen Jesus.

Do you accept that there is a risk that these reports of  'sightings' might not be factually true and could propaganda for Jesus by his supporters?

If you don't accept that possibility, then on what basis have you rejected the risk of propaganda?

[Alan Burns]

Do you accept that there is a risk that these reports of  'sightings' might not be factually true and could propaganda for Jesus by his supporters?

If you don't accept that possibility, then on what basis have you rejected the risk of propaganda?

The exponential expansion of the Christian faith (despite intense persecution) after the resurrection would never have happened if it was built upon a lie.  Would the first disciples have sacrificed their lives for the sake of a lie?

[Sebastian Toe]

The exponential expansion of the Christian faith (despite intense persecution) after the resurrection would never have happened if it was built upon a lie.  Would the first disciples have sacrificed their lives for the sake of a lie?

The expansion of Islam(which will likely overtake Christianity in the coming years) would never happen if it was built on a lie, would it?

[Gordon]

The exponential expansion of the Christian faith (despite intense persecution) after the resurrection would never have happened if it was built upon a lie.  Would the first disciples have sacrificed their lives for the sake of a lie?

Wow - you really are credulous, and incredibly naive, if that is the best you can do.

That some were prepared to die for their 'cause' may say something about them but it says nothing about the credibility of their cause: were it otherwise then we would be celebrating the sincerity of every suicide bomber? Or is it only Christian martyrs that we should admire?

[torridon]

The exponential expansion of the Christian faith (despite intense persecution) after the resurrection would never have happened if it was built upon a lie.  Would the first disciples have sacrificed their lives for the sake of a lie?

'Exponential' is something of an exaggeration.  As compared to the rapid spread of Islam from its own inception in the 7th century, the spread of christianity was modest during the days of the early church.  However it got a boost when it was adopted as the state religion of the Roman Empire in the fourth century, then an even bigger boost by piggy backing on 500 years of European colonialism from the 15th century onwards.

[torridon]

No corpse was ever found, but there were hundreds of alleged sightings of the risen Jesus.

FIFY

[jeremyp]

It is demonstrated by every thought, word or deed I consciously choose to make of my own free will.

How is it demonstrated? You have not shown us a line of reasoning that leads from the facts to your conclusion.