Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

Alan, you do understand don't you that using the bible to support what you say isn't that useful when you are talking to people who don't believe in God and see the bible as being written by men?

The point I was making was in answer to a suggestion that many Christians to not believe in the devil.  As most Christians believe (or should believe) that the New Testament is about God's message as seen in the life of Jesus, they should accept the existence of the devil as a reality.

[Alan Burns]

I have my problems understanding talk of feed-back loops between the pre-frontal cortex and the basal ganglia

Good luck with that 

[Shaker]

Good luck with that 

Science is hard, Alan.

Far easier to prate of gods and devils and think that you've got the whole business sewn up.

[Maeght]

The point I was making was in answer to a suggestion that many Christians to not believe in the devil.  As most Christians believe (or should believe) that the New Testament is about God's message as seen in the life of Jesus, they should accept the existence of the devil as a reality.

This was a reply to Rhiannon who is not a Christian of course. You may not have meant it to be to Rhiannon, because as was pointed out it didn't actually answer her question, but that's who it was to.

[Alan Burns]

That doesn't answer my question. If we have been devil-led are you sure you are safe to associate with such people?

No one is safe from the devil's temptation during their earthly lives.  It is the reason for having a Saviour.

[torridon]

No one is safe from the devil's temptation during their earthly lives.  It is the reason for having a Saviour.

Surely it would have been better not to create a Devil in the first place, then there would be no need for a Saviour.

[Rhiannon]

No one is safe from the devil's temptation during their earthly lives.  It is the reason for having a Saviour.

That's still a duck, but implicit in that I take it you think you are safe because you have faith.

What about Len and I? Why didn't Jesus protect us?

[Shaker]

No one is safe from the devil's temptation during their earthly lives.

Don't you know there ain't no devil, that's just Shaker when he's drunk*

* Apologies to Tom Waits.

[ekim]

It is simply explained as the Trinity, three persons in one God - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Christians remind themselves of the Trinity when they make the sign of the cross by saying, "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"

In this quotation, God the Son is speaking to His Father in Heaven

That sounds very odd, three persons in one God, I get an image of triplet gods where one god called a father god is in heaven and another, called a son god, is on earth and the other one, called a spirit god is in a spirit world and then as one of the gods is dying on the cross he calls out to one of the other gods in heaven asking him why he has been forsaken.  Are you sure that you have got this right?  Also, how does a cross which can be seen as made of two pieces of wood, or having four aspects remind anybody of a trinity?

[Nearly Sane]

I might have posted this before but the trinity always reminds me, apart from Carrie Moss, of a sitcom - ' And the Holy Ghost makes 3!', where you see God the Son arrive home and hear the voice of God the Father shout 'have you tidied your room', cut to picture of room untidied which GtF knew cos he's omniscient. GtS shouts 'Yes, dad.', cut to room now tidied, which is cos he's omnipotent, and then the HG appears through the Spirit flap.

[Alan Burns]

Science is hard, Alan.

Far easier to prate of gods and devils and think that you've got the whole business sewn up.

I do not wish to trivialise science.  It is a fascinating subject.

But I do try to point out that science has its limitations in explaining the true reality behind our existence.

[Shaker]

I do not wish to trivialise science.  It is a fascinating subject.

But I do try to point out that science has its limitations in explaining the true reality behind our existence.

Except that true to form your opinions or beliefs about a supposedly 'true' reality behind our existence are no more than a series of bald but typically unsubstantiated assertions with zero supporting evidence.

[Nearly Sane]

I do not wish to trivialise science.  It is a fascinating subject.

But I do try to point out that science has its limitations in explaining the true reality behind our existence.

Which means you need another methodology, asked you before, but will ask again, do you have one? Note assertion and lots of fallacies, are not one.

[Alan Burns]

That's still a duck, but implicit in that I take it you think you are safe because you have faith.

What about Len and I? Why didn't Jesus protect us?

I am sure it would have helped if you were aware of how the devil tempts us away from God.

[Shaker]

I am sure it would have helped if you were aware of how the devil tempts us away from God.

An awareness which no doubt you're in possession of, eh, Alan?

Does this temptation also apply to people who have never had a religious belief to lose to begin with and have never been anything other than nonbelievers?

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

I am sure it would have helped if you were aware of how the devil tempts us away from God.

And I'm sure it would have helped you if you were aware that Kevin the Pixie is responsible for removing the right amount of red and black flavours from packs of Maynard's wine gums.

That's the thing you see when you just use terms like "devil" or "Kevin" that lack definition, reason or evidence - your opinion on one is precisely as useful as my opinion on the other - i.e., not very in each case.

"Science" by the way doesn't claim to know everything - that's why people keep doing it. If though you think there to be truths forever beyond the purview of science, then by all means propose finally a method to validate your conjectures about these "truths". 

[Alan Burns]

how does a cross which can be seen as made of two pieces of wood, or having four aspects remind anybody of a trinity?

When Christians make the sign of the cross with their right hand, the head is pointed to at the word Father, the heart at the word Son, and the two shoulders at the words Holy Spirit.

[Nearly Sane]

When Christians make the sign of the cross with their right hand, the head is pointed to at the word Father, the heart at the word Son, and the two soulders at the words Holy Spirit.

Cos it is words in English that count. Your post shows you suffer from  severely anaemicy

[Alan Burns]

An awareness which no doubt you're in possession of, eh, Alan?

Does this temptation also apply to people who have never had a religious belief to lose to begin with and have never been anything other than nonbelievers?

The devil will certainly try to prevent you from believing in the first place.  When the scales of deception fall away, you will be amazed and ashamed that you did not see through this deception.

[Shaker]

The devil will certainly try to prevent you from believing in the first place.  When the scales of deception fall away, you will be amazed and ashamed that you did not see through this deception.

So therefore you are explicitly identifying critical, sceptical, rational thought - the ability to weigh up evidence (when there is any) and to identify bad arguments, flat assertions and generally sloppy thinking - with temptation by the devil.

Do you have the faintest inkling how utterly deranged you sound to those of us who don't live in 1416 as you do?

[torridon]

The devil will certainly try to prevent you from believing in the first place.  When the scales of deception fall away, you will be amazed and ashamed that you did not see through this deception.

God could remove those scales if he wished.  Should be a doddle for someone omnipotent.

[Shaker]

God could remove those scales if he wished.  Should be a doddle for someone omnipotent.

A great many things would be a doddle for a genuinely omnipotent entity, torri, but we don't see them either - just the usual parade of half-baked excuses, rationalisations and explainings-away from the usual suspects

[Leonard James]

When Christians make the sign of the cross with their right hand, the head is pointed to at the word Father, the heart at the word Son, and the two shoulders at the words Holy Spirit.

Are you aware, Alan, that these actions are very like the weird passes and movements made by primitive tribes dancing round their totem poles or their medicine man fire?

[wigginhall]

So therefore you are explicitly identifying critical, sceptical, rational thought - the ability to weigh up evidence (when there is any) and to identify bad arguments, flat assertions and generally sloppy thinking - with temptation by the devil.

Do you have the faintest inkling how utterly deranged you sound to those of us who don't live in 1416 as you do?

It also seems highly immoral to me, to suggest that people who think for themselves are being seduced by demonic forces.   It's insulting, patronizing, and condemning, all in one. 

[Alan Burns]

So therefore you are explicitly identifying critical, sceptical, rational thought - the ability to weigh up evidence (when there is any) and to identify bad arguments, flat assertions and generally sloppy thinking - with temptation by the devil.

Do you have the faintest inkling how utterly deranged you sound to those of us who don't live in 1416 as you do?

Your post reminds me of this profound line from the Steve Turner poem I quoted:

You twist the living out of life

Can there be any true living in a world defined entirely by deterministic science?
Sometimes poetry can express a profound truth when other methods fail.