Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

I have always had a fascination of science and technology, but I can verify that it all pales into insignificance compared to the wonder and awe of knowing God.

Not so! It all pales into insignificance compared to the wonder of believing you know God.

Len, God is real.  More real than anything I perceive through my human senses.  God has made Himself known by becoming part of me.  You will most likely write this off as total delusion, but there are many others with the same insight.

Ah, but the God you believe in is a capricious being, bursting into the lives of some, unbidden, whilst stubbornly refusing to materialise for others who spend time earnestly 'looking' for him. This is not a God deserving of worship to my mind, it is a far lesser being than one that was available to all without fear of favour, with none of this silly hide and seek business.

I think faith is the key you need to use to unlock the door and let Him into your life, but sadly there is an evil presence which does everthing in its power to block people's faith.

[Rhiannon]

... in the case of Catholics especially one can hardly blame them

I personally know of many, many very happy Roman Catholics who endeavour to obey all the rules of the church in addition to doing other good works.  I know there are also many who cherry pick what rules they wish to obey in order to suite their lifestyle, but sadly they miss out on the absolute joy and inner peace of being at one with God.

How do you know that they don't 'experience the same joy' as you? How do you know that in using contraception and limiting their family size they don't use the extra time this frees up for prayer or good works?

[Shaker]

There's nothing evil about using your evolution-given brain to reason with, Al, but I'm not remotely surprised that you should think there is.

[Rhiannon]

There's nothing evil about using your evolution-given brain to reason with, Al, but I'm not remotely surprised that you should think there is.

He means the devil is blocking your wifi connection to God.

[Shaker]

Oh yes, I knew exactly what he meant. It's one of the standard tropes of a certain brand of theist.

[Rhiannon]

It makes God rather small, doesn't it?

[Shaker]

Yes, but that seems to be intrinsic to theism generally, certainly in my experience of listening to many theists. They talk a good game about an infinite God this and an awesome God that, but when push comes to shove they oftentimes betray that they appear to believe in a God functionally the same as a tired and petulant four year-old.

[Alan Burns]

I would never be so daft as to deny the possibility of such an intelligence, and will obviously accept it when I am presented with any reliable evidence for it.

Well...that is good enough for a start, I think. What you now need to realize is that the brain that you are so proud of, DNA... and everything else that exists in the world......IS the evidence for this Intelligence.

There is no other special evidence labeled as 'evidence for God' and hidden somewhere for us to find.

That's fine. I'll line myself up behind Einstein's take on religion.

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

Unfortunately high intelligence does not really help against the efforts of the evil one to hide God from us.  Some very intelligent scientists have used their gifts to think up incredibly complex scenarios to try to explain how we came into existence without God's creative power.  One such scenario is the M theory which postulates that there is an almost infinite number of parallel universes and we just happen to be in the one with all the incredibly finely tuned conditions needed to support life.  We have yet to discover any tangible evidence for these parallel universes, whereas the evidence of God's creative power is there for all to see.

[Shaker]

I can't see it, Alan.

Is it the evil one again?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Leonard,

But you can't quote wee Albert, what does the greatest scientist who has ever lived know about theology.

When I post telling the forum that wee Albert is on record as saying Our Lord was most definitely no myth I am told what does he know about the subject.

But I prefer when he talks about the universe and the fact that we can understand it, that is one of the big questions, why!

Gonnagle.

[BashfulAnthony]

Yes, but that seems to be intrinsic to theism generally, certainly in my experience of listening to many theists. They talk a good game about an infinite God this and an awesome God that, but when push comes to shove they oftentimes betray that they appear to believe in a God functionally the same as a tired and petulant four year-old.

That latter remark is a rather silly and sweeping generalisation.  I venture to suggest that as a life-time Christian, who has undoubtedly had more experience and interaction with Christians than you, the allusion you make is something I simply do not recognise.   It is just your usual, unsubstantiated, attempt to deride Christians.  It won't do.

[Shaker]

Dear Leonard,

But you can't quote wee Albert, what does the greatest scientist who has ever lived know about theology.

When I post telling the forum that wee Albert is on record as saying Our Lord was most definitely no myth I am told what does he know about the subject.

But I prefer when he talks about the universe and the fact that we can understand it, that is one of the big questions, why!

Gonnagle.

We can understand some of it some of the time, Gonners

[Alan Burns]

... in the case of Catholics especially one can hardly blame them

I personally know of many, many very happy Roman Catholics who endeavour to obey all the rules of the church in addition to doing other good works.  I know there are also many who cherry pick what rules they wish to obey in order to suite their lifestyle, but sadly they miss out on the absolute joy and inner peace of being at one with God.

How do you know that they don't 'experience the same joy' as you? How do you know that in using contraception and limiting their family size they don't use the extra time this frees up for prayer or good works?

I know from personal experience.  I was once a very half hearted Catholic before I discovered the truth of God's love.  I concede that there are many different ways that God calls people to the faith.  My personal journey was through the Roman Catholic church, but there is no 'one size fits all' and there are many different routes to find the true God, but whatever Christian church God calls you to, you need to give full commitment to find true fulfillment.

[Shaker]

Yes, but that seems to be intrinsic to theism generally, certainly in my experience of listening to many theists. They talk a good game about an infinite God this and an awesome God that, but when push comes to shove they oftentimes betray that they appear to believe in a God functionally the same as a tired and petulant four year-old.

That latter remark is a rather silly and sweeping generalisation.  I venture to suggest that as a life-time Christian, who has undoubtedly had more experience and interaction with Christians than you, the allusion you make is something I simply do not recognise.   It is just your usual, unsubstantiated, attempt to deride Christians.  It won't do.

It's been my experience that in many cases deriding Christians is unnecessary, since some of the things they come out with - things they purport to believe - make themselves look silly without any other input. As our Alan is doing a sterling job of demonstrating right now, as it happens.

[BashfulAnthony]

Yes, but that seems to be intrinsic to theism generally, certainly in my experience of listening to many theists. They talk a good game about an infinite God this and an awesome God that, but when push comes to shove they oftentimes betray that they appear to believe in a God functionally the same as a tired and petulant four year-old.

That latter remark is a rather silly and sweeping generalisation.  I venture to suggest that as a life-time Christian, who has undoubtedly had more experience and interaction with Christians than you, the allusion you make is something I simply do not recognise.   It is just your usual, unsubstantiated, attempt to deride Christians.  It won't do.

It's been my experience that in many cases deriding Christians is unnecessary, since some of the things they come out with - things they purport to believe - make themselves look silly without any other input. As our Alan is doing a sterling job of demonstrating right now, as it happens.

So?  Some do, but there are just as many cookie atheists knocking about.  What does it prove?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Shaker,

Well yes, perhaps I should say limited understanding, but we can understand, why!! There is a old book which says we are made in some Gods image but what does some old book know, eh!! eh!!

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

Quite! I wouldn't trust an old book on medicine and nor would anybody else of any sense, so why an old book on anything else should be deemed trustworthy I have no idea

[BashfulAnthony]

Quite! I wouldn't trust an old book on medicine and nor would anybody else of any sense, so why an old book on anything else should be deemed trustworthy I have no idea

Yet another sweeping generalisation!

[Shaker]

But true.

[BashfulAnthony]

But true.

 "...generalization is a statement that seems to be true in most situations or for most people, but that may not be completely true in all cases."  So, may not be true!

[Shaker]

No, I concede that you might be able to find one or two oddballs somewhere who think that a 2,000 year-old treatise on medicine is an accurate and reliable medical textbook, true.

[BashfulAnthony]

No, I concede that you might be able to find one or two oddballs somewhere who think that a 2,000 year-old treatise on medicine is an accurate and reliable medical textbook, true.

You said: "Quite! I wouldn't trust an old book on medicine and nor would anybody else of any sense, so why an old book on anything else should be deemed trustworthy I have no idea."


I wasn't referring exclusively to medical books.

[Shaker]

Neither was I; I used that as an analogy.

[BashfulAnthony]

Neither was I; I used that as an analogy.

It doesn't work.  Because medical books may be long out-dated, it doesn't follow that all other old books, on varying subjects, are also.

[Shaker]

No, it doesn't automatically follow in every case; but if a 2,000 year-old medical treatise is out of date and its use in 2015 bizarre, the same applies to a 2,000 year-old book of moral edicts and the attempt to crowbar them into 2015 situations.