Searching for GOD...

[BashfulAnthony]

I ask you again:  how do you know how Alan brought up
his children. 

Because I have known him for many years, and have learned as much from our past conversations.

Do you not get tired of being so gloriously wrong?

Perhaps you could be more explicit:  how do you know he has brain-washed his children?  If you cannot substantiate that nasty remark, then apologise.  Have you ever met him?  Do you actually know anything about him and his life off-line?  Do tell.

[Leonard James]

I ask you again:  how do you know how Alan brought up
his children. 

Because I have known him for many years, and have learned as much from our past conversations.

Do you not get tired of being so gloriously wrong?

Perhaps you could be more explicit:  how do you know he has brain-washed his children?  If you cannot substantiate that nasty remark, then apologise.  Have you ever met him?  Do you actually know anything about him and his life off-line?  Do tell.

Why not stem your churning out of vitriol until Alan confirms that he brought his children up to believe that "God" is a fact?

Don't worry, I won't expect an apology until you have been taught manners.

[BashfulAnthony]

I ask you again:  how do you know how Alan brought up
his children. 

Because I have known him for many years, and have learned as much from our past conversations.

Do you not get tired of being so gloriously wrong?

Perhaps you could be more explicit:  how do you know he has brain-washed his children?  If you cannot substantiate that nasty remark, then apologise.  Have you ever met him?  Do you actually know anything about him and his life off-line?  Do tell.

Why not stem your churning out of vitriol until Alan confirms that he brought his children up to believe that "God" is a fact?

Don't worry, I won't expect an apology until you have been taught manners.

I said, it is a disgrace to assume that Alan's children are unable to think for themselves.  Don't tell me that you've known them for years as well.

  Don't talk of vitriol to me, after saying what you've said.  You are scurrilous, and a liar as well.

[Leonard James]

  Don't talk of vitriol to me, after saying what you've said.  You are scurrilous, and a liar as well.

Wipe all that foam off your mouth before you kiss me! 

[BashfulAnthony]

  Don't talk of vitriol to me, after saying what you've said.  You are scurrilous, and a liar as well.

Wipe all that foam off your mouth before you kiss me! 

Don'e evade the issue, again.   

On reflection, I'd rather kiss a Goblin Shark.  No offence.

But do answer my question, even though Shaky doesn't appear to be around to advise.

[BeRational]

It is not a bald assertion.  It is based on the words of Jesus Christ who is the centre of my life:
"I am the way, the truth and the life", said Jesus.  "No one can come to the Father ecept through me"

That's still bald assertion, Al.

It is based on the words of Jesus Christ who is the centre of my life

I'm sure Mrs Burns and any small Burns are absolutely thrilled.

They probably are. Any small Shakers - what a thought  -  are in a very sterile and bigoted environment.

Will you be apologizing for this?

[BashfulAnthony]

It is not a bald assertion.  It is based on the words of Jesus Christ who is the centre of my life:
"I am the way, the truth and the life", said Jesus.  "No one can come to the Father ecept through me"

That's still bald assertion, Al.

It is based on the words of Jesus Christ who is the centre of my life

I'm sure Mrs Burns and any small Burns are absolutely thrilled.

They probably are. Any small Shakers - what a thought  -  are in a very sterile and bigoted environment.

Will you be apologizing for this?

No. 

[BeRational]

It is not a bald assertion.  It is based on the words of Jesus Christ who is the centre of my life:
"I am the way, the truth and the life", said Jesus.  "No one can come to the Father ecept through me"

That's still bald assertion, Al.

It is based on the words of Jesus Christ who is the centre of my life

I'm sure Mrs Burns and any small Burns are absolutely thrilled.

They probably are. Any small Shakers - what a thought  -  are in a very sterile and bigoted environment.

Will you be apologizing for this?

No.

So you are a hypocrite then?

Do not blather on about others descriptions, when you are in the same vein.

[Leonard James]

  Don't talk of vitriol to me, after saying what you've said.  You are scurrilous, and a liar as well.

Wipe all that foam off your mouth before you kiss me! 

Don'e evade the issue, again.   

On reflection, I'd rather kiss a Goblin Shark.  No offence.

But do answer my question, even though Shaky doesn't appear to be around to advise.

I have no more time to waste now, sweetie, maybe next week. 

[BashfulAnthony]

It is not a bald assertion.  It is based on the words of Jesus Christ who is the centre of my life:
"I am the way, the truth and the life", said Jesus.  "No one can come to the Father ecept through me"

That's still bald assertion, Al.

It is based on the words of Jesus Christ who is the centre of my life

I'm sure Mrs Burns and any small Burns are absolutely thrilled.

They probably are. Any small Shakers - what a thought  -  are in a very sterile and bigoted environment.

Will you be apologizing for this?

No.

So you are a hypocrite then?

Do not blather on about others descriptions, when you are in the same vein.

 My comments are based on Shaker's posts. Leonard claims to know how Alan's children were brought up, and specifically insults their intelligence.  We are all hypocrites, as I've often said:  including your sainted self.

[BeRational]

I too am an atheist, and I have two children.

My children do not believe in a god either, not because I taught them not to believe, rather god is just never mentioned.

Being an atheist is the DEFAULT position.

They received the normal religious education from school, but without some reinforcement at home (it is never discussed), they remain unconvinced.

They have not been brought up in a bigoted environment, but brought up to think for themselves.

[torridon]

Any faith system which does not accept Jesus Christ as the divine saviour is on the wrong track.  To suggest there are other routes to salvation is to trivialise what Jesus did to open up the door to heaven.

See, my prediction of your response was borne out immediately. You expect people to take your personal testimony as valid but you yourself will not extend that courtesy to people of other faiths. It is a two-faced position to be in, it's not sustainable.

There is only one truth. Salvation is open to anyone who accepts Jesus as their saviour.

Ah, you have sunken back into bald assertion. You'll need to do better than that if you want to make a convincing case.

It is not a bald assertion.  It is based on the words of Jesus Christ who is the centre of my life:
"I am the way, the truth and the life", said Jesus.  "No one can come to the Father except through me"

So, you can quote scripture to back up your position.  Do you think that other faiths do not also have scriptures that they can quote to substantiate their position ?  The overwhelming likelihood if you had been born and brought up in Karachi would be that you would be quoting Koranic scripture to justify your love of the Prophet.

[Alan Burns]

So, you can quote scripture to back up your position.  Do you think that other faiths do not also have scriptures that they can quote to substantiate their position ?  The overwhelming likelihood if you had been born and brought up in Karachi would be that you would be quoting Koranic scripture to justify your love of the Prophet.

But as I have said several times, it was Jesus who made Himself known to me and came into my life - not Muhammad or Allah or Buddha.

[Alan Burns]

I find it distasteful that you have brainwashed your children, Alan.

Len,
Every human being has the ability to think for themselves and make their own judgements.  There are many examples of children brought up by devout Christian parents who have rejected the faith.  And I know of many Christians who came to the faith in spite of having atheist parents.  I have not forced my faith onto my children, but I have shared my faith with them and hopefully been a good witness.  God wants people to freely choose Him as their saviour, He does not force Himself on anyone.  It is the reason we have been given free will, for love not freely given is worth nothing at all.

[floo]

I find it distasteful that you have brainwashed your children, Alan.

Len,
Every human being has the ability to think for themselves and make their own judgements.  There are many examples of children brought up by devout Christian parents who have rejected the faith.  And I know of many Christians who came to the faith in spite of having atheist parents.  I have not forced my faith onto my children, but I have shared my faith with them and hopefully been a good witness.  God wants people to freely choose Him as their saviour, He does not force Himself on anyone.  It is the reason we have been given free will, for love not freely given is worth nothing at all.

Alan you would have more credibility if instead of stating things as a FACT, you said that this is what you believe!

[BeRational]

So, you can quote scripture to back up your position.  Do you think that other faiths do not also have scriptures that they can quote to substantiate their position ?  The overwhelming likelihood if you had been born and brought up in Karachi would be that you would be quoting Koranic scripture to justify your love of the Prophet.

But as I have said several times, it was Jesus who made Himself known to me and came into my life - not Muhammad or Allah or Buddha.

How can you tell the difference between delusion and him making himself known to you?

How do you account for others being equally convinced about their gods.

One thing they have on common with you, is a complete lack of evidence.

[Leonard James]

I find it distasteful that you have brainwashed your children, Alan.

Len,
Every human being has the ability to think for themselves and make their own judgements.  There are many examples of children brought up by devout Christian parents who have rejected the faith.  And I know of many Christians who came to the faith in spite of having atheist parents.  I have not forced my faith onto my children, but I have shared my faith with them and hopefully been a good witness.  God wants people to freely choose Him as their saviour, He does not force Himself on anyone.  It is the reason we have been given free will, for love not freely given is worth nothing at all.

I know that you have not forced your belief on your kids, Alan, but you must realise that growing up in a Christian household, (as I did) inevitably biases children to belief. Not all of them are lucky enough, when they reach the age of reason, to shake off the indoctrination of their younger days.

That is why I feel it is the duty of parents to teach their religion to their children as a belief, not a fact. Anything else is misleading them.

[Rhiannon]

Not talking about Alan's kids here, obviously, but I've known some very devout teens who did everything that pleased mum and dad in terms of church etc whilst going to the completely opposite extreme when away from home. It's normal for young people to rebel and if they haven't got it out of their system by the time they finish university it'll come when they are in work with much more to spend - and lose.

[BashfulAnthony]

I find it distasteful that you have brainwashed your children, Alan.

Len,
Every human being has the ability to think for themselves and make their own judgements.  There are many examples of children brought up by devout Christian parents who have rejected the faith.  And I know of many Christians who came to the faith in spite of having atheist parents.  I have not forced my faith onto my children, but I have shared my faith with them and hopefully been a good witness.  God wants people to freely choose Him as their saviour, He does not force Himself on anyone.  It is the reason we have been given free will, for love not freely given is worth nothing at all.

I know that you have not forced your belief on your kids, Alan, but you must realise that growing up in a Christian household, (as I did) inevitably biases children to belief. Not all of them are lucky enough, when they reach the age of reason, to shake off the indoctrination of their younger days.

That is why I feel it is the duty of parents to teach their religion to their children as a belief, not a fact. Anything else is misleading them.

What happened to "brainwash," Leonard?

[Rhiannon]

I must admit to finding this 'brainwashing' idea a bit odd. Children generally grow up able to think for themselves and if religion no longer serves a purpose in their lives then they'll leave it sooner or later.

[BashfulAnthony]

I must admit to finding this 'brainwashing' idea a bit odd. Children generally grow up able to think for themselves and if religion no longer serves a purpose in their lives then they'll leave it sooner or later.

Rhiannon, I quite agree.  That's why it is so offensive, and incorrect, to suggest that they are incapable of choosing what to believe, or what not to believe..

[BeRational]

I must admit to finding this 'brainwashing' idea a bit odd. Children generally grow up able to think for themselves and if religion no longer serves a purpose in their lives then they'll leave it sooner or later.

Rhiannon, I quite agree.  That's why it is so offensive, and incorrect, to suggest that they are incapable of choosing what to believe,or not.

Children at an early age tend to believe what their parents or trusted adults tell them.
Evolution has made it this way to help survival.

This is largely a very useful thing, but can be abused.

[Rhiannon]

I must admit to finding this 'brainwashing' idea a bit odd. Children generally grow up able to think for themselves and if religion no longer serves a purpose in their lives then they'll leave it sooner or later.

Rhiannon, I quite agree.  That's why it is so offensive, and incorrect, to suggest that they are incapable of choosing what to believe,or not.

I think when they are young they believe whatever they are told. But if it doesn't continue to feel real or, as I say, serve a purpose in their lives, they'll quit  as they get older. I've known it the other way, too - my cousin raised her children to be both anti church and anti religion and her son is a Christian.

[Spud]

It still makes no sense. If Adam didn't know that disobeying "God" was wrong, it was unjust to condemn him for doing so.

By 'knowledge of good and evil' is meant, knowledge in the sense of experience. So you have free will to choose between good and evil actions, but you don't 'know' them until after the action.

[Leonard James]

I must admit to finding this 'brainwashing' idea a bit odd. Children generally grow up able to think for themselves and if religion no longer serves a purpose in their lives then they'll leave it sooner or later.

Not necessarily. I was able to, but many others are too fearful of the consequences  they have been taught about.