Searching for GOD...

[Leonard James]

It still makes no sense. If Adam didn't know that disobeying "God" was wrong, it was unjust to condemn him for doing so.

By 'knowledge of good and evil' is meant, knowledge in the sense of experience. So you have free will to choose between good and evil actions, but you don't 'know' them until after the action.

If you choose an action but don't know that it is wrong, it is totally unjust to punish you for it afterwards.

[Rhiannon]

I must admit to finding this 'brainwashing' idea a bit odd. Children generally grow up able to think for themselves and if religion no longer serves a purpose in their lives then they'll leave it sooner or later.

Not necessarily. I was able to, but many others are too fearful of the consequences  they have been taught about.

I can't think of any contemporary Christians I know that I'd say this is true of. I think in other faiths it might be true because of losing family and cultural approval.

Generally people stay with their faith as adults because it works for them.

[Leonard James]

I must admit to finding this 'brainwashing' idea a bit odd. Children generally grow up able to think for themselves and if religion no longer serves a purpose in their lives then they'll leave it sooner or later.

Not necessarily. I was able to, but many others are too fearful of the consequences  they have been taught about.

I can't think of any contemporary Christians I know that I'd say this is true of. I think in other faiths it might be true because of losing family and cultural approval.

Generally people stay with their faith as adults because it works for them.

Obviously, arguing from opposite sides of the fence we are never going to agree about it. 

[Rhiannon]

I must admit to finding this 'brainwashing' idea a bit odd. Children generally grow up able to think for themselves and if religion no longer serves a purpose in their lives then they'll leave it sooner or later.

Not necessarily. I was able to, but many others are too fearful of the consequences  they have been taught about.

I can't think of any contemporary Christians I know that I'd say this is true of. I think in other faiths it might be true because of losing family and cultural approval.

Generally people stay with their faith as adults because it works for them.

Obviously, arguing from opposite sides of the fence we are never going to agree about it. 

Why? I'm not bringing my kids up to be pagan - and if I was I've made a complete pigs ear of it. At time of writing they are all atheist, albeit atheists with 'spiritual' interests.

[Alan Burns]

I must admit to finding this 'brainwashing' idea a bit odd. Children generally grow up able to think for themselves and if religion no longer serves a purpose in their lives then they'll leave it sooner or later.

Not necessarily. I was able to, but many others are too fearful of the consequences  they have been taught about.

True Christianity, unlike some other faith systems, is not a religion of fear, but a religion of love - it is about discovering God's love for us.  The most common phrase in the Christian bible is "Do not be afraid". My children certainly do not fear consequences, because they have discovered God's love.

[Alan Burns]

If you choose an action but don't know that it is wrong, it is totally unjust to punish you for it afterwards.

Len, it is not a punishment, but a consequence.  If you choose to put your own will before God's, you distance yourself from Him to the extent that it makes it more difficult for Him to deliver you from evil.

[Spud]

It still makes no sense. If Adam didn't know that disobeying "God" was wrong, it was unjust to condemn him for doing so.

By 'knowledge of good and evil' is meant, knowledge in the sense of experience. So you have free will to choose between good and evil actions, but you don't 'know' them until after the action.

If you choose an action but don't know that it is wrong, it is totally unjust to punish you for it afterwards.

Why? If I'm not punished I might do it again.

[torridon]

So, you can quote scripture to back up your position.  Do you think that other faiths do not also have scriptures that they can quote to substantiate their position ?  The overwhelming likelihood if you had been born and brought up in Karachi would be that you would be quoting Koranic scripture to justify your love of the Prophet.

But as I have said several times, it was Jesus who made Himself known to me and came into my life - not Muhammad or Allah or Buddha.

Around and around and around you go ... 

You use personal testimony to justify your choice of scripture and you use scripture to validate your personal testimony.

I think you indulge this circularity because you cannot in truth justify your position that your personal testimony is valid whereas that of people from other faiths is somehow not so valid.

[Alan Burns]

So, you can quote scripture to back up your position.  Do you think that other faiths do not also have scriptures that they can quote to substantiate their position ?  The overwhelming likelihood if you had been born and brought up in Karachi would be that you would be quoting Koranic scripture to justify your love of the Prophet.

But as I have said several times, it was Jesus who made Himself known to me and came into my life - not Muhammad or Allah or Buddha.

Around and around and around you go ... 

You use personal testimony to justify your choice of scripture and you use scripture to validate your personal testimony.

I think you indulge this circularity because you cannot in truth justify your position that your personal testimony is valid whereas that of people from other faiths is somehow not so valid.

My personal testimony and scripture are both part of the same thing - God is endeavoring to make Himself known to us.

[savillerow]

"god is endevouring to make himself known to us"  What bloody medium does this entity need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We got phones, tv, facebook, letter writing, smoke signals, sign language, morse code, touch, smell, hear, see, taste, pigeon post, telegram, pony express, text la di da di. Arrrgghhh.

[Shaker]

"god is endevouring to make himself known to us"  What bloody medium does this entity need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We got phones, tv, facebook, letter writing, smoke signals, sign language, morse code, touch, smell, hear, see, taste, pigeon post, telegram, pony express, text la di da di. Arrrgghhh.

No, you don't understand - the deity apparently prefers to get its message over via the medium of a lot of very ancient, disparate and contradictory documents so obscure that they have to be 'interpreted.'

[trippymonkey]

He could be having a very long kip or maybe He's popped off down the shops for His daily read ?!?!!!?

[savillerow]

Shaker Msg 469  If thinking carries on like that i need to locate to another planet. A planet where everything is just right, right for life to exist and there seems to be a certain kind of design about it all. A planet like no other planet, one where im blessed to be in existence and i can thank some wonderful "being" for the whole life and death experience. . .and beyond. No wait. . . .curses its this planet. I best stay behind then and hope education, science, logic, common sense and being rational will win the day. Heres hoping.

[Shaker]

It still makes no sense. If Adam didn't know that disobeying "God" was wrong, it was unjust to condemn him for doing so.

By 'knowledge of good and evil' is meant, knowledge in the sense of experience. So you have free will to choose between good and evil actions, but you don't 'know' them until after the action.

If you choose an action but don't know that it is wrong, it is totally unjust to punish you for it afterwards.

Why? If I'm not punished I might do it again.

You might - that surely is where explanation rather than punishment comes in, yes?

[ippy]

I was reading some of the threads and it is abundantly clear that people do not seek the truth regarding God but simply reasons to keep from believing in him.

In doing so they ignore the very warnings and signs of the times.
If people read the bible in a manner that sought to know God...how many would be so ignorant of those signs?

I thought I would have a look at the OP due to the continental drift syndrome factor, these threads are inclined to drift away from the OP.

I had a look at the thread title, "Searching for GOD"... and the first thing that comes to mind is, since there is no reliable evidence that could establish if there is any kind of factual element in this god belief of yours Sass, indeed why bother?

ippy

[Gonnagle]

Dear Alan,

God is endeavoring to make Himself known to us.

Oxford English.

try hard to do or achieve something:

God does not endeavour, God does, little gods endeavour.

Gonnagle.

[torridon]

Dear Alan,

God is endeavoring to make Himself known to us.

Oxford English.

try hard to do or achieve something:

God does not endeavour, God does, little gods endeavour.

Gonnagle.

Not according to Alan, his belief is that the Devil is blocking God's efforts to get through to some people, and God seemingly cannot overcome that.

[Leonard James]

[

Obviously, arguing from opposite sides of the fence we are never going to agree about it. 

Why? I'm not bringing my kids up to be pagan - and if I was I've made a complete pigs ear of it. At time of writing they are all atheist, albeit atheists with 'spiritual' interests.

Don't be so touchy, dear, I didn't accuse you of it. I simply meant that we are on opposite sides of the fence as far as belief in gods was concerned.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Torridon,

Ah!! right the Devil, big red guy, horns spikey tale carries a pitchfork, I thought my God had kicked his ass ages ago.

BTW, horns and spikey tale, not to be confused with atheists.

Gonnagle.

[Rhiannon]

[

Obviously, arguing from opposite sides of the fence we are never going to agree about it. 

Why? I'm not bringing my kids up to be pagan - and if I was I've made a complete pigs ear of it. At time of writing they are all atheist, albeit atheists with 'spiritual' interests.

Don't be so touchy, dear, I didn't accuse you of it. I simply meant that we are on opposite sides of the fence as far as belief in gods was concerned.

Asking a question isn't being 'touchy'; as I don't agree with raising children to believe in religious beliefs I don't think we are on 'opposing' sides on this. I just think most people grow up with more sense than you give them credit for.

[trippymonkey]

How ironic G says spikey TALE rather than TAIL.

Or was that a Freudian slip ?!!?!!?

BTW Where DO Christians get THAT idea of Satan from?? Rhetorical as I DO know.

Nick

[torridon]

Dear Torridon,

Ah!! right the Devil, big red guy, horns spikey tale carries a pitchfork, I thought my God had kicked his ass ages ago.

BTW, horns and spikey tale, not to be confused with atheists.

Gonnagle.

 

[SusanDoris]

At time of writing they are all atheist, albeit atheists with 'spiritual' interests.

Why do so many people find it remarkable that atheists have a spiritual, aesthetic side to their nature? Being spiritual is not exclusive to non-atheists.

[jjohnjil]

At time of writing they are all atheist, albeit atheists with 'spiritual' interests.

Why do so many people find it remarkable that atheists have a spiritual, aesthetic side to their nature? Being spiritual is not exclusive to non-atheists.

I think they believe the only spiritual we know about, Doris, comes out of a bottle!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Susan,

Yes, being spiritual is a very human trait one that science so far has no answers.

Science can measure brain activity and tell us about chemicals which are released when we have a spiritual moment but the big question still remains, why!

Why do we stand in awe of a beautiful sunset, why are we humbled at what I call Gods majesty, you might call it the wonder of nature.

I read a Leonard post and think, yes he is a very spiritual person but I would like him to explain using his favourite subject, evolution, why!!

Gonnagle.