Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

People of other faiths may lay that charge against your faith, muslims for instance see christianity as a heretical cult that distances people from God by interposing the personality of Jesus; and the only true path of righteousness lies in submitting to the will of god directly by observance of the Pillars of Islam. All such onetruewayism is dysfunctional, eventually, imv, there cannot be one single truth, but rather a myriad of perspectives, and we can become better people by humbly admitting to the limits of our knowledge.

Muslims refuse to accept that Jesus was divine, and in order to support this view they also claim that the crucifixion and resurrection did not take place.  These contradictions were made several hundred years after the Gospels were written and without any substantial evidence to offer against the Gospel writers.

A Christian convert from Islam once told me that if you could get a devout Muslim to read the New Testament Gospels, they would discover a loving God which is not evident in the Koran.  He says from his own experience that the biggest obstacle to converting was fear.  Fear of being rejected by his own community and fear of reprisals, which could include death.  Islam is a religion based of fear, not on love.  There is only one truth, and Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

[Shaker]

A Christian convert from Islam once told me that if you could get a devout Muslim to read the New Testament Gospels, they would discover a loving God which is not evident in the Koran.

Does this only apply to those who are already religious? I ask because I've read the Gospels (a lot, over a long period of time) and remain entirely unconvinced and unpersuaded. But then of course I start out as an atheist and not as a believer of some description, hence my question.   

There is only one truth, and Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His Prophet.

We can all do the bald assertion game all day long, Alan.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

A Christian convert from Islam once told me that if you could get a devout Muslim to read the New Testament Gospels, they would discover a loving God which is not evident in the Koran.

Does this only apply to those who are already religious? I ask because I've read the Gospels (a lot, over a long period of time) and remain entirely unconvinced and unpersuaded. But then of course I start out as an atheist and not as a believer of some description, hence my question.   

There is only one truth, and Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His Prophet.

We can all do the bald assertion game all day long, Alan.

But here we are with the ''all statements are of equal importance/non importance'' thing again.
To automatically take that line is IMHO unreasonable.
A Prophet is one thing, but truth, way and life are declarations about the nature of ''The ultimate''. Jesus is claiming to be the ultimate concern for mankind. Mohammed isn't.

Treatment of both as equally non important is to do so prior to the consideration of the two. When one does I think you'll find that The claims of Jesus are more threatening.

[~TW~]

   The claims of Jesus are more threatening.
------------------------------------------------------
So what do you not like,and what do you see as threatening ?

~TW~

[Shaker]

But here we are with the ''all statements are of equal importance/non importance'' thing again.
To automatically take that line is IMHO unreasonable.
A Prophet is one thing, but truth, way and life are declarations about the nature of ''The ultimate''. Jesus is claiming to be the ultimate concern for mankind. Mohammed isn't.

Alan, as is by now his long-established MO, laid down a bald assertion and beat a hasty retreat before any unbeliever such as your unhumble non-servant pressed him with their importunate demands for verification of his claims. That's Alan's way, and we all know it of old: assert and piss off. (And be extremely selective with regard to which questions you choose to answer, but that's another matter).

I, in turn, responded with yet another assertion. Not one that I believe, clearly - come come: fatuous Islamic fantasies are every bit as tawdry as Christian ones - but one which forms the cornerstone of the faith of (thank you Wikipedia) some 1.5 billion people on the planet.

The point of doing this - not that you need to be told but since you're playing dumb and doing a sterling job of it, if I may say so Vlad - is that one assertion cancels out the other. Any rational mind has no reason whatever to believe the one more true than the other and vice versa, and in fact can only conclude that both are false.

I know this, you know this ... not sure about Alan.

Treatment of both as equally non important is to do so prior to the consideration of the two. When one does I think you'll find that The claims of Jesus are more threatening.

Threatening? 

[BashfulAnthony]

Dear Alan,

God is endeavoring to make Himself known to us.

Oxford English.

try hard to do or achieve something:

God does not endeavour, God does, little gods endeavour.

Gonnagle.

OK, I concede that God has made Himself know to us by becoming one of us in the form of Jesus Christ, but we have the problem that this truth is being hidden from most of us by something which is trying to separate us from God.  The temptations of the Devil are evident in both the old and new testaments, and if the Devil is bold enough to try to tempt God Himself, we need to be very wary of this evil and not pretend that it does not exist.

So your version of the deity is too weak to stand up to dear old Satan?

The Devil tried and failed to tempt Jesus.  Jesus claimed the final victory by submitting to His torture and death.  The victory was not for Him - it was done for us!

There was nothing victorious about his death, just another poor sod who had got up the noses of the occupying force!

Why don't you give it a rest?  You accuse other posters of being unpleasant, but in case you haven't realised it, yours are, too!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

But here we are with the ''all statements are of equal importance/non importance'' thing again.
To automatically take that line is IMHO unreasonable.
A Prophet is one thing, but truth, way and life are declarations about the nature of ''The ultimate''. Jesus is claiming to be the ultimate concern for mankind. Mohammed isn't.

Alan, as is by now his long-established MO, laid down a bald assertion and beat a hasty retreat before any unbeliever such as your unhumble non-servant pressed him with their importunate demands for verification of his claims. That's Alan's way, and we all know it of old: assert and piss off. (And be extremely selective with regard to which questions you choose to answer, but that's another matter).

I, in turn, responded with yet another assertion. Not one that I believe, clearly - come come: fatuous Islamic fantasies are every bit as tawdry as Christian ones - but one which forms the cornerstone of the faith of (thank you Wikipedia) some 1.5 billion people on the planet.

The point of doing this - not that you need to be told but since you're playing dumb and doing a sterling job of it, if I may say so Vlad - is that one assertion cancels out the other. Any rational mind has no reason whatever to believe the one more true than the other and vice versa, and in fact can only conclude that both are false.

I know this, you know this ... not sure about Alan.

Treatment of both as equally non important is to do so prior to the consideration of the two. When one does I think you'll find that The claims of Jesus are more threatening.

Threatening? 

Threatening as in in Islam it's all done for you and written down to boot in a manual of laws. Jesus suggest that he is the way, the truth and the life so somehow we need a personal relationship which is in that sense less easy than following a list of commandments

The rest of your post was just assertive Shakerballs unless you want to expand on fatuous and tawdry fantasies and rational since blanket head turning with whistling and finger twiddling is a sign of an ignoramus..

[ippy]

People of other faiths may lay that charge against your faith, muslims for instance see christianity as a heretical cult that distances people from God by interposing the personality of Jesus; and the only true path of righteousness lies in submitting to the will of god directly by observance of the Pillars of Islam. All such onetruewayism is dysfunctional, eventually, imv, there cannot be one single truth, but rather a myriad of perspectives, and we can become better people by humbly admitting to the limits of our knowledge.

Muslims refuse to accept that Jesus was divine, and in order to support this view they also claim that the crucifixion and resurrection did not take place.  These contradictions were made several hundred years after the Gospels were written and without any substantial evidence to offer against the Gospel writers.

A Christian convert from Islam once told me that if you could get a devout Muslim to read the New Testament Gospels, they would discover a loving God which is not evident in the Koran.  He says from his own experience that the biggest obstacle to converting was fear.  Fear of being rejected by his own community and fear of reprisals, which could include death.  Islam is a religion based of fear, not on love.  There is only one truth, and Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

Alan have you managed to contact topnotchsigns.co.uk they're doing special offers on "The End of the World is Neigh", "The Day of Judgement is Near" and "Armageddon", so if you want to take any of these up now's the time.

Don't forget about the wind factor and the overhead clearance if you hire the overhead board to add on to your "A" board, see you in the local high street Alan, no need to introduce yourself.

ippy 

[ippy]

...and we can become better people by humbly admitting to the limits of our knowledge.

I will happpily admit there are many limits to my knowledge, but I won't do it 'humbly'!! :J)
 
In any case, before whom should we humble ourselves?

Come, let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the LORD our Maker;

(Ps 95:6)

" It looks like you've all been let out for the day.

ippy

Whereas you have a man in white trousers and a sleeveless white shirt standing behind you?

"Whereas you have a man in white trousers and a sleeveless white shirt standing behind you"?

Beats walking around barking and wearing "A" boards.

ippy

[Shaker]

Threatening as in in Islam it's all done for you and written down to boot in a manual of laws. Jesus suggest that he is the way, the truth and the life so somehow we need a personal relationship which is in that sense less easy than following a list of commandments

Still no further forward with what you're supposed to mean here, Vlad. I have lots of personal relationships (i.e. real people who actually exist) and none of them are threatening.

Perhaps it's something to do with the company you keep.

The rest of your post was just assertive Shakerballs unless you want to expand on fatuous and tawdry fantasies and rational since blanket head turning with whistling and finger twiddling is a sign of an ignoramus..

Anyone?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Threatening as in in Islam it's all done for you and written down to boot in a manual of laws. Jesus suggest that he is the way, the truth and the life so somehow we need a personal relationship which is in that sense less easy than following a list of commandments

Still no further forward with what you're supposed to mean here, Vlad. I have lots of personal relationships (i.e. real people who actually exist) and none of them are threatening.

Perhaps it's something to do with the company you keep.

I can't believe it wasn't just a bit unconfortable for you to ''get off yourself''.

[Shaker]

Apologies for the trouble I'm having with my internet connection; maybe what you're typing makes sense when you write it and hit Enter but at my end it's coming across as incomprehensible bollocks.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Apologies for the trouble I'm having with my internet connection;

Some of us haven't forgiven you for having one.

[Leonard James]

Apologies for the trouble I'm having with my internet connection;

Some of us haven't forgiven you for having one.

Add me to the list.

[Alan Burns]

Alan, as is by now his long-established MO, laid down a bald assertion and beat a hasty retreat before any unbeliever such as your unhumble non-servant pressed him with their importunate demands for verification of his claims. That's Alan's way, and we all know it of old: assert and piss off. (And be extremely selective with regard to which questions you choose to answer, but that's another matter).

I am not posting here to win arguments or engage in trivial tit for tat exchanges.  I am simply witnessing to how I see God works in my life.  I know beyond any doubt that God loves each one of us, and I want to share this life-changing knowledge with as many people as possible.  I want to meet up with you all in Heaven, not to say "I told you so!" but to give you all a hug and say "Thank God you are here."

[Leonard James]

I know beyond any doubt that God loves each one of us...

No, Alan, you don't know it at all ... you have just allowed yourself to be convinced of it. It's all moonshine!

"God" doesn't exist outside fiction, any more than King Kong does.

[Alan Burns]

I know beyond any doubt that God loves each one of us...

No, Alan, you don't know it at all ... you have just allowed yourself to be convinced of it. It's all moonshine!

"God" doesn't exist outside fiction, any more than King Kong does.

If you ever allow Him to Len, God will convince you otherwise, but you have to let Him in first.

[Shaker]

I am not posting here to win arguments or engage in trivial tit for tat exchanges.

Yes, we know that already. An argument - or, at the very least, a dialogue - implies, in fact is inherently constituted by, a certain back and forth, by conversational tit-for-tat. This implies that you heed what the other party is saying and then respond to it. There's no more evidence that you do the latter than the former, since you seem to treat the forum as a personal echo chamber wherein you can hear nothing but the reverberation of your own bald assertions with very very little to no attempt to engage with people who critique and challenge these. For all the engagement you do here with people who counter your flat claims of this and that, spray-painting your beliefs on the nearest brick wall would serve as well.

I am simply witnessing to how I see God works in my life.  I know beyond any doubt that God loves each one of us

... which makes you, at best, incredibly philosophically naive and at worst a bloody fool.

[Shaker]

I know beyond any doubt that God loves each one of us...

No, Alan, you don't know it at all ... you have just allowed yourself to be convinced of it. It's all moonshine!

"God" doesn't exist outside fiction, any more than King Kong does.

If you ever allow Him to Len, God will convince you otherwiswe, but you have to let Him in first.

This is the sort of circular reasoning which I know will have been pointed out to you a million times before, Alan, and with every bit as little response from you.

[torridon]

I am not posting here to win arguments or engage in trivial tit for tat exchanges.  I am simply witnessing to how I see God works in my life.  I know beyond any doubt that God loves each one of us, and I want to share this life-changing knowledge with as many people as possible.  I want to meet up with you all in Heaven, not to say "I told you so!" but to give you all a hug and say "Thank God you are here."

Well there's nothing to worry about then; if you are right and there is a God who loves each one of us, then we can all be happy together in Heaven after the end of time as this God will want the best for us all, even those of us who find it all implausible in this life.

[Shaker]

Well there's nothing to worry about then; if you are right and there is a God who loves each one of us, then we can all be happy together in Heaven after the end of time as this God will want the best for us all, even those of us who find it all implausible in this life.

Good point torridon - but what we need to know is, is Alan's god the same sort as that wittily lampooned by David Hume, the sort with a very human-like uneasy vanity, who doesn't take kindly to not being believed in and with a restless appetite for applause?

I think we should be told.

[Rhiannon]

I know beyond any doubt that God loves each one of us...

No, Alan, you don't know it at all ... you have just allowed yourself to be convinced of it. It's all moonshine!

"God" doesn't exist outside fiction, any more than King Kong does.

If you ever allow Him to Len, God will convince you otherwise, but you have to let Him in first.

You can't patronise people into faith.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I know beyond any doubt that God loves each one of us...

No, Alan, you don't know it at all ... you have just allowed yourself to be convinced of it. It's all moonshine!

"God" doesn't exist outside fiction, any more than King Kong does.

And like King Kong's tackle that statement is gargantuan bollocks, Len.

[Shaker]

You will be able to say why, won't you. (And, being Vlad, with the emphasis entirely on the word "won't").

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I know beyond any doubt that God loves each one of us...

No, Alan, you don't know it at all ... you have just allowed yourself to be convinced of it. It's all moonshine!

"God" doesn't exist outside fiction, any more than King Kong does.

If you ever allow Him to Len, God will convince you otherwise, but you have to let Him in first.

You can't patronise people into faith.

I'm interested in knowing why you can't quite hack a God who would allow resistance to himself.