Searching for GOD...

[Leonard James]

But not as enormous as the ego that thinks it can turn down the offer.

Except that I am not turning anything down. If I believed "God" were real and the offer true, I would accept it immediately.

Sadly, I am only too well aware that it is all wishful thinking dreamed up by long dead people.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

But not as enormous as the ego that thinks it can turn down the offer.

Except that I am not turning anything down. If I believed "God" were real and the offer true, I would accept it immediately.

Sadly, I am only too well aware that it is all wishful thinking dreamed up by long dead people.

Yawn.

[Shaker]

There's such a thing as a stinging rejoinder ...

[Leonard James]

But not as enormous as the ego that thinks it can turn down the offer.

Except that I am not turning anything down. If I believed "God" were real and the offer true, I would accept it immediately.

Sadly, I am only too well aware that it is all wishful thinking dreamed up by long dead people.

Yawn.

Tired, dearie? Toiddle off to bed, say your prayers, and dream about your lovely "God". 

[Rhiannon]

Is it not very presumtuous for us to try to dictate what God wants us to do?

So you think he really wants the knee bending and the praise?

I am happy to accept the words of Jesus which call upon us to love God with all our hearts, and to love our neighbour as ourselves.  From personal experience, loving God is very much a two way thing, because in doing so you get to feel the wonder of God's love for us, which gives us even more inspiration to share this love with our neighbours.

Yes, love and kindness do seem to engender a reciprocal action.

He doesn't need the praise or knee bending....but its good for us. Keeps our ego in its place. That's the point.

But it hasn't worked, has it? I can't speak for Hinduism, but the damage done by the monotheistic faiths in the belief God gave humanity 'dominion' over creation is astronomical.

It seems to me that our best hope lies now in those who bend their knee before nature in wonder, and who remember how small and insignificant we are as a consequence. The earth would be much better off without us; if we are going to keep our place here then we'd better get some perspective, stop thinking we are at the top of the tree and figure out how to treat the natural world with respect.

[Shaker]

But it hasn't worked, has it? I can't speak for Hinduism, but the damage done by the monotheistic faiths in the belief God gave humanity 'dominion' over creation is astronomical.

It seems to me that our best hope lies now in those who bend their knee before nature in wonder, and who remember how small and insignificant we are as a consequence. The earth would be much better off without us; if we are going to keep our place here then we'd better get some perspective, stop thinking we are at the top of the tree and figure out how to treat the natural world with respect.

Yup (and that's putting it about as mildly as it can be put).

[torridon]

He doesn't need the praise or knee bending....but its good for us. Keeps our ego in its place. That's the point.

But it hasn't worked, has it? I can't speak for Hinduism, but the damage done by the monotheistic faiths in the belief God gave humanity 'dominion' over creation is astronomical.

It seems to me that our best hope lies now in those who bend their knee before nature in wonder, and who remember how small and insignificant we are as a consequence. The earth would be much better off without us; if we are going to keep our place here then we'd better get some perspective, stop thinking we are at the top of the tree and figure out how to treat the natural world with respect.

<Applause>

[Leonard James]

But it hasn't worked, has it? I can't speak for Hinduism, but the damage done by the monotheistic faiths in the belief God gave humanity 'dominion' over creation is astronomical.

It seems to me that our best hope lies now in those who bend their knee before nature in wonder, and who remember how small and insignificant we are as a consequence. The earth would be much better off without us; if we are going to keep our place here then we'd better get some perspective, stop thinking we are at the top of the tree and figure out how to treat the natural world with respect.

Oh dear, that's going to make a hole in their pomposity! 

[Shaker]

... and that's the problem 

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,

You got an applause from Torridon and a agreement from Shaker but to win me over I will need some more, and please remember that this request comes from a follower of Christ, a religion that teaches greed is a sin.

Gonnagle.

[Leonard James]

Dear Rhiannon,

You got an applause from Torridon and a agreement from Shaker but to win me over I will need some more, and please remember that this request comes from a follower of Christ, a religion that teaches greed is a sin.

Gonnagle.

Win you over to what? Rhi was just pointing out what is clear to people who think about it. What more do you want, Gonners?

[Shaker]

It seems to me that our best hope lies now in those who bend their knee before nature in wonder, and who remember how small and insignificant we are as a consequence. The earth would be much better off without us; if we are going to keep our place here then we'd better get some perspective, stop thinking we are at the top of the tree and figure out how to treat the natural world with respect.

Like Elizabeth I, I try not to make a window into men's or women's souls; but it strikes me that Rhiannon, whatever her private beliefs and whatever the labels you care to slap onto them, has reminded us - not stated but reminded, because it's something that we should all know already and in fact do know, save that most people in most ways in most places most of the time go out of their way to deny it, traditionally religious people most damagingly and destructively of all - of the one thing which could do the most and the most immediate good not only for all humanity but for all sentient beings on this one small and in cosmic terms lonely little wet rock; the abandonment of human exceptionalism and anthropocentrism and the recognition of human life amongst all life, one species amongst all species, the unity of the only life we know and have ever known in the one place we know and have ever known.

When more people than not set aside their absurdly over-inflated delusions of human specialness and see themselves, rightly, as a part of life, awareness, consciousness instead of all life, awareness and consciousness that matters, we might all stand a chance. I'm not an optimist and don't believe that this will ever happen; I'm enough of a realist to know that it could happen with enough and a fast enough shift in consciousness.

[Leonard James]

Like Elizabeth I, I try not to make a window into men's or women's souls; but it strikes me that Rhiannon has reminded us - not stated but reminded, because it's something that we should all know already and in fact do know, save that most people in most ways in most places most of the time go out of their way to deny it - of the one thing which could do the most and the most immediate good not only for all humanity but for all sentient beings on this one small and in cosmic terms lonely little wet rock; the abandonment of human exceptionalism and anthropocentrism and the recognition of human life amongst all life, one species amongst all species, the unity of the only life we know and have ever known in the one place we know and have ever known.

When more people than not set aside their absurdly over-inflated delusions of human specialness and see themselves, rightly, as a part of life, awareness, consciousness instead of all life, awareness and consciousness that matters, we might all stand a chance. I'm not an optimist and don't believe that this will ever happen; I'm enough of a realist to know that it could happen with enough and a fast enough shift in consciousness.

Well put, Shakes! I love it when you get all profound and serious, and leave the irascibility to one side!

Mind you, I would hate you not to have an outburst now and again, because it gives me much pleasure to read them!

I'd better not laud you any more, or the prissy bitches on the other side will get all huffy about it. 

[Shaker]

Aw, shit 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Like Elizabeth I, I try not to make a window into men's or women's souls; but it strikes me that Rhiannon has reminded us - not stated but reminded, because it's something that we should all know already and in fact do know, save that most people in most ways in most places most of the time go out of their way to deny it - of the one thing which could do the most and the most immediate good not only for all humanity but for all sentient beings on this one small and in cosmic terms lonely little wet rock; the abandonment of human exceptionalism and anthropocentrism and the recognition of human life amongst all life, one species amongst all species, the unity of the only life we know and have ever known in the one place we know and have ever known.

When more people than not set aside their absurdly over-inflated delusions of human specialness and see themselves, rightly, as a part of life, awareness, consciousness instead of all life, awareness and consciousness that matters, we might all stand a chance. I'm not an optimist and don't believe that this will ever happen; I'm enough of a realist to know that it could happen with enough and a fast enough shift in consciousness.

Well put, Shakes! I love it when you get all profound and serious, and leave the irascibility to one side!

Mind you, I would hate you not to have an outburst now and again, because it gives me much pleasure to read them!

I'd better not laud you any more, or the prissy bitches on the other side will get all huffy about it. 

Not at all,  fraternal and mutual appreciation is often a fine thing........................................................You haven't seen the sick bucket have you?

[Leonard James]

Not at all,  fraternal and mutual appreciation is often a fine thing........................................................You haven't seen the sick bucket have you?

Nah! Maybe one of your mates is shitting himself in it.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Shaker,

Nice post, so man is not special, correct me if I am wrong but the simple fact that we, us, mankind has screwed up this planet does put us in the special category.

I am still waiting for a explanation of how you blame religion, in particular my religion for mans stupidity and greed.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

You haven't seen the sick bucket have you?

Yes I've got it Vlad! I'm keeping hold of it till you do one of your philosophical materialism posts again 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You haven't seen the sick bucket have you?

Yes I've got it Vlad! I'm keeping hold of it till you do one of your philosophical materialism posts again 

That's alright you keep it mate............

[Leonard James]

Dear Shaker,

Nice post, so man is not special, correct me if I am wrong but the simple fact that we, us, mankind has screwed up this planet does put us in the special category.

Yes, more shame on us!

I am still waiting for a explanation of how you blame religion, in particular my religion for mans stupidity and greed.

I'm sure he doesn't, but can't help wondering about all the filthy rich Christians out there.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Not at all,  fraternal and mutual appreciation is often a fine thing........................................................You haven't seen the sick bucket have you?

Nah! Maybe one of your mates is shitting himself in it.

[Nearly Sane]

Unusual, Gonzo, but not special. Unique even, but not special.

Though I disagree with Shaker and Rhiannon.on this because it is another thesis built the idea that religion is in some form external from humanity. I would suggest that human exceptionalism is taken as read in most peoples day to day thoughts that when it appears in religion it is merely a manifestation of that.


I know your approach to religion is not one of greed, but the idea of dominion has allowed not just the idea that climate change is unimportant as touted by many evangelical parts of Christianity in the U S but also that people have different value to other people and in part led to the total extermination of the Tasmanian Aborigines.

That said such horrors can be carried out in the name of almost any form of ideology as they have a tendency to exceptionalism as we appear to do as a species. To highlight religion or even monotheism on this to me appears another form of ideology and exceptionalism.

[Shaker]

Dear Shaker,

Nice post, so man is not special, correct me if I am wrong but the simple fact that we, us, mankind has screwed up this planet does put us in the special category.

As in the " ... needs" category that's hardly the sort of special that people consciously want to belong to, Gonners 

I am still waiting for a explanation of how you blame religion, in particular my religion for mans stupidity and greed.

I don't blame religion as the sole, only and unique reason, Gonners. And this isn't so much about stupidity and greed as human exceptionalism, which is to say, the view that the human species is qualitatively as opposed to quantitively different from all the rest of life. The planet teems with innumerable* different forms of life. We're one of them. For understandable evolutionary reasons many members of this species think that we're the only form that counts; ironically for those very same evolutionarily-endowed reasons (i.e. because humans can be as intelligent as they are), we can now be aware that we are a life amongst almost an infinity of other lives. 

I believe, as ardently, as passionately as I believe anything in this world, that the future of the world, the only realistic future of the world, lies in humanity adopting a global awareness and consciousness as opposed to a local, tribal, parochial, even speciesist consciousness such as obtains in most people in most places in most ways most of the time. It's not easy for most people to do this. Many, in fact most people have speciesist, au fond religious ideas which run directly counter to this. These things are ferociously difficult to overturn. But the fact that some people, in fact a growing number of people, are able to think long enough and hard enough and clearly enough to overcome this offers some slim and precarious hope for such future as we may have.

* Literally. The number of species of living creatures on earth can only be guessed at, such is the fertility and variety of life.

[BashfulAnthony]

Dear Shaker,

Nice post, so man is not special, correct me if I am wrong but the simple fact that we, us, mankind has screwed up this planet does put us in the special category.

As in the " ... needs" category that's hardly the sort of special that people consciously want to belong to, Gonners 

I am still waiting for a explanation of how you blame religion, in particular my religion for mans stupidity and greed.

I don't blame religion as the sole, only and unique reason, Gonners. And this isn't so much about stupidity and greed as human exceptionalism, which is to say, the view that the human species is qualitatively as opposed to quantitively different from all the rest of life. The planet teems with innumerable* different forms of life. We're one of them. For understandable evolutionary reasons many members of this species think that we're the only form that counts; ironically for those very same evolutionarily-endowed reasons (i.e. because humans can be as intelligent as they are), we can now be aware that we are a life amongst almost an infinity of other lives. 

I believe, as ardently, as passionately as I believe anything in this world, that the future of the world, the only realistic future of the world, lies in humanity adopting a global awareness and consciousness as opposed to a local, tribal, parochial, even speciesist consciousness such as obtains in most people in most places in most ways most of the time. It's not easy for most people to do this. Many, in fact most people have speciesist, au fond religious ideas which run directly counter to this. These things are ferociously difficult to overturn. But the fact that some people, in fact a growing number of people, are able to think long enough and hard enough and clearly enough to overcome this offers some slim and precarious hope for such future as we may have.

* Literally. The number of species of living creatures on earth can only be guessed at, such is the fertility and variety of life.

Sorry to elbow in here, there, but I think the religious community has more people in that category than elsewhere.  That is not to deny that there are others with their heads in the sand; but it only takes a small cadre to effect change and set the example. 

[Nearly Sane]

Is there much point in playing a game of one upmanship about if there are more or less numbers of people who feel that way in or out of the religious community (whatever that actually is) rather than just being happy that there are such people and that they might seek to work together?