Searching for GOD...

[Leonard James]

http://www.livescience.com/46411-free-will-is-background-noise.html

Have a good day, Len. 

Well, the morning wasn't too good! I went to the optician for new glasses, because I've got to renew my driving license this month, and she informed me that the ones I've got can't be bettered, and advised me to see the ophthalmologist because I may be developing cataracts.

The afternoon will be much better because I have my three soap operas to look forward to before I cook dinner! 

[Leonard James]

I don't understand why you reject the science on this, Len. It's quite odd that I'm arguing as a theist with an atheist against what is usually a theist position.

I suppose it's because I'm a queer 'un! 

[floo]

Sorry about your eyes Leonard, it is a nuisance if you have cataracts. However, I know several people who have had them removed and are seeing better than ever now. My husband's best friend had his done last year and he doesn't need spectacles now.

[Leonard James]

Throughout your prior existence. What does 'against my better opinion' actually mean anyway? What you would normally do perhaps? But you've never been in that exact position before and never had the exact same prior experiences and therefore 'programming'.

Nah! Therefore choosing!

[Leonard James]

Sorry about your eyes Leonard, it is a nuisance if you have cataracts. However, I know several people who have had them removed and are seeing better than ever now. My husband's best friend had his done last year and he doesn't need spectacles now.

Yes, hopefully it's no more than a nuisance. Fingers crossed.

[Rhiannon]

http://www.livescience.com/46411-free-will-is-background-noise.html

Have a good day, Len. 

Well, the morning wasn't too good! I went to the optician for new glasses, because I've got to renew my driving license this month, and she informed me that the ones I've got can't be bettered, and advised me to see the ophthalmologist because I may be developing cataracts.

The afternoon will be much better because I have my three soap operas to look forward to before I cook dinner! 

Hope it goes ok, Len. My dad's developing them too but he can still drive at the moment. I believe the surgery is fairly straightforward once it becomes necessary.

[Leonard James]

Assuming that "God" created us, he created us without wings, and consequently we can't fly. That doesn't mean we have no free will.

Substitute "incapable of doing wrong" for "wings", and the same thing applies.

Would you want your kids to be like this, or is it better that they choose to do right?

Are you kidding? Of course I would want them not to be able to do wrong! Who in there right mind would wish trouble on their kids?

[Leonard James]

http://www.livescience.com/46411-free-will-is-background-noise.html

Have a good day, Len. 

Well, the morning wasn't too good! I went to the optician for new glasses, because I've got to renew my driving license this month, and she informed me that the ones I've got can't be bettered, and advised me to see the ophthalmologist because I may be developing cataracts.

The afternoon will be much better because I have my three soap operas to look forward to before I cook dinner! 

Hope it goes ok, Len. My dad's developing them too but he can still drive at the moment. I believe the surgery is fairly straightforward once it becomes necessary.

I'm sure it's all going to be fine, but even if I have to give up driving, it ain't the end of the world. 

[Sebastian Toe]

http://www.livescience.com/46411-free-will-is-background-noise.html

Have a good day, Len. 

Well, the morning wasn't too good! I went to the optician for new glasses, because I've got to renew my driving license this month, and she informed me that the ones I've got can't be bettered, and advised me to see the ophthalmologist because I may be developing cataracts.

The afternoon will be much better because I have my three soap operas to look forward to before I cook dinner! 

Hope it goes ok, Len. My dad's developing them too but he can still drive at the moment. I believe the surgery is fairly straightforward once it becomes necessary.

I'm sure it's all going to be fine, but even if I have to give up driving, it ain't the end of the world. 

Do you qualify for a free bus-pass Len? 

[Spud]

We are not omniscient

But we know before we have our kids that they will sometimes be naughty.

But we do not chose to create them naughty. The analogy doesn't work because your God choses that we will need to be punished.

But there's an element in the story of God not being omniscient- like he was waiting to see which tree Adam would go for. Eg, 'who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree...etc'. There's no hint of him knowing what they would do.

[Nearly Sane]

We are not omniscient

But we know before we have our kids that they will sometimes be naughty.

But we do not chose to create them naughty. The analogy doesn't work because your God choses that we will need to be punished.

But there's an element in the story of God not being omniscient- like he was waiting to see which tree Adam would go for. Eg, 'who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree...etc'. There's no hint of him knowing what they would do.

That's fine, if you want to drop the claim from your god of omniscience all to the good. So he just murdered everyone apart from 8 people and a small percentage f animals, but he could have been all wrong about that too

[wigginhall]

We are not omniscient

But we know before we have our kids that they will sometimes be naughty.

But we do not chose to create them naughty. The analogy doesn't work because your God choses that we will need to be punished.

But there's an element in the story of God not being omniscient- like he was waiting to see which tree Adam would go for. Eg, 'who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree...etc'. There's no hint of him knowing what they would do.

Well, you have just driven a huge wedge into Christian theology.   If God didn't know where Adam was, what does he know? 

[Shaker]

Perhaps it was the world's first (and largest) deployment of Socratic irony, wiggles

[Nearly Sane]

It makes clear that Spud' s god is a bit of a trial and error merchant, not really sure what happened. You can just see him being interviewed for the news going 'Yeah, well it all started well with Satan or Luci as I called him then, he seemed like such a brilliant  angel, then one day he came up to me and he said "you don't really know what I am going to do next, do you?" And I was like "Is it a surprise, Luci? Have you got me present?"
And he went "duh, I'm evil and so' s some of my mates" "Evil" I says, "What's that?"
And he does "This" and gives me a wedgie. The whole paradise thing hasn't been the same since'

[Leonard James]

Do you qualify for a free bus-pass Len? 

 

I don't even know if there is such a thing here, but it's of little importance because all the shops are within walking distance.

[Nearly Sane]

 

We are not omniscient

But we know before we have our kids that they will sometimes be naughty.

But we do not chose to create them naughty. The analogy doesn't work because your God choses that we will need to be punished.

But there's an element in the story of God not being omniscient- like he was waiting to see which tree Adam would go for. Eg, 'who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree...etc'. There's no hint of him knowing what they would do.

Well, you have just driven a huge wedge into Christian theology.   If God didn't know where Adam was, what does he know?

On that basis we could change the title to 'God Searching for Adam or how hide and seek was invented'

[Rhiannon]

'Has he sneaked out for a smoke again?'

[Rhiannon]

Assuming that "God" created us, he created us without wings, and consequently we can't fly. That doesn't mean we have no free will.

Substitute "incapable of doing wrong" for "wings", and the same thing applies.

Would you want your kids to be like this, or is it better that they choose to do right?

Are you kidding? Of course I would want them not to be able to do wrong! Who in there right mind would wish trouble on their kids?

They need a little bit of trouble - just a bit - in order to learn. Otherwise they'll either be automatons or dangerous.

[wigginhall]

A friend of mine says, if God is omniscient and so on, why the f didn't he tell us to wash our hands?  Think of all the millions of people who would have been spared illness, including women in childbirth dying of infection.   But I suppose this then becomes bizarre - why didn't Jesus tell us about smartphones?

[Nearly Sane]

I've now got this picture of Spud' s god being played by an irate Brian Glover, in full Kes mode, taking register and going 'Adam! Adam? Come on you lot, first name in register. Adam, wherefore art you Adam, if he isn't here in a shake of the proverbial tail of the lamb of me, so help me me, I'll ave Adam!'

[Rhiannon]

We are not omniscient

But we know before we have our kids that they will sometimes be naughty.

But we do not chose to create them naughty. The analogy doesn't work because your God choses that we will need to be punished.

But there's an element in the story of God not being omniscient- like he was waiting to see which tree Adam would go for. Eg, 'who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree...etc'. There's no hint of him knowing what they would do.

Which shows the story's mythic evolution - a Demi-God or God with human weaknesses such as confusion, not knowing - rather than the later omnipotent, omniscient God of Christian theology.

[wigginhall]

How about this - Jesus: why has thou forsaken me?   God: I can't remember.

[Rhiannon]

A friend of mine says, if God is omniscient and so on, why the f didn't he tell us to wash our hands?  Think of all the millions of people who would have been spared illness, including women in childbirth dying of infection.   But I suppose this then becomes bizarre - why didn't Jesus tell us about smartphones?

God created the bacteria. He didn't create Dettol.

[wigginhall]

A friend of mine says, if God is omniscient and so on, why the f didn't he tell us to wash our hands?  Think of all the millions of people who would have been spared illness, including women in childbirth dying of infection.   But I suppose this then becomes bizarre - why didn't Jesus tell us about smartphones?

God created the bacteria. He didn't create Dettol.

We could have had 11 commandments, number 11, wash your hands before meals, after toilet, and before surgery. 

[Maeght]

Throughout your prior existence. What does 'against my better opinion' actually mean anyway? What you would normally do perhaps? But you've never been in that exact position before and never had the exact same prior experiences and therefore 'programming'.

Nah! Therefore choosing!

Sorry - don't really understand your reply.