Searching for GOD...

[Nearly Sane]

The problem with that is Alan's position is a cheat. It denies the position of anyone who disagrees with his position and is a dishonest about the word 'glimpses' since it makes an absolute claim about knowledge.

[Rhiannon]

But of course the irony is that I've read his claim to know something absolutely and seen a completely different truth in it. So even has he stakes his claim over owning what God is and means, he fails. He demonstrates he owns neither.

[Sassy]

We've gone over this many times with Alan it won't make any difference because Alan has to believe that we have soul's and free will to fit in with his theology.

And atheists have to believe that free will is an illusion in order to fit in with the deterministic nature of science.

Like atheism, it is the default position; until such time as someone finds some evidence in support of the idea of free will then we should regard it as one more fanciful product of our cognitive biases rather than something to be taken seriously.

How do you manage to keep your face straight.
I for one would never have written the above, even as an atheist.
I cannot believe, Alan is actually giving you any time over this...
What a load of bleddy Rubbish... No one really believes free will does not exist.
In the dictionary it says...


free will
noun
noun: freewill
1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
synonyms:   volition, independence, self-determination, self-sufficiency, autonomy, spontaneity; More
antonyms:   under duress
adjective
adjective: freewill
1.
(especially of a donation) voluntary.
"free-will offerings"
Free will exists...

It is in the dictionary....

It does exist and you are having  a laugh at Alan's expense...
But the real joke is on you...

I've come to the conclusion that free will can't possibly exist. No-one could choose to miss the point by this astronomical distance.

ht

Wouldn't the honest answer be that  NO POINT MISSED.
TRUTH IS: There is no point to answer when it comes to free will and the very fact you tried to ignore the truth by making such a stupid remark proves it.

So to test you and your stupid point... What part of free will does not exist when it comes to belief in God... And if does not exist then how come you do not believe?

You knowingly choose to believe in paganism which has been proved to be made up beliefs without any truth about it...

Please do not come here and tell me I don't understand freewill when it comes to Religion or    Paganism... Because I truly understand that you being a pagan was a choice by using your free will/freewill....

It is the emperors new clothes with you every time... Now anyone who is a pagan is clearly showing free will/ Freewill because paganism NEVER SOUGHT YOU OUT, DID IT?

[Sassy]

One of the problems is the conscious agent.   Where is it?  What is it?  People who support free will tend to just say, it's me, here I am, choosing freely to do something.   But that doesn't really demonstrate it.   

Same with the soul, which I suppose AB is connecting with free will.   Show it to me.

free will is clearly seen in choosing to die rather than accept the truth about Jesus Christ...  Our choices are limited to our senses...
But not the Spiritual choices... they are about something bigger outside ourselves...

But how does an atheist really know about the Spiritual when they CHOOSE to ignore it?

[Sassy]

Sorry about your eyes Leonard, it is a nuisance if you have cataracts. However, I know several people who have had them removed and are seeing better than ever now. My husband's best friend had his done last year and he doesn't need spectacles now.

Yes, hopefully it's no more than a nuisance. Fingers crossed.

Praying would be a better option that the surgery goes well or your eyes are okay for driving at present till the op is possible. XX

[Sassy]

http://www.livescience.com/46411-free-will-is-background-noise.html

Have a good day, Len. 

Well, the morning wasn't too good! I went to the optician for new glasses, because I've got to renew my driving license this month, and she informed me that the ones I've got can't be bettered, and advised me to see the ophthalmologist because I may be developing cataracts.

The afternoon will be much better because I have my three soap operas to look forward to before I cook dinner! 

Hope it goes ok, Len. My dad's developing them too but he can still drive at the moment. I believe the surgery is fairly straightforward once it becomes necessary.

I'm sure it's all going to be fine, but even if I have to give up driving, it ain't the end of the world. 

Do you qualify for a free bus-pass Len? 

Do you get them abroad, Len?

[horsethorn]

Dear Nutters,

Over a thousand posts arguing about God and then the thread floats into rainy days and beautiful thoughts, stop searching, you have found him/her/it.

God is in the fine detail, yes even the ugly fine detail.

Gonnagle.

but it is only a glimpse of the real thing

So very true. But then, that's all anyone gets... even christians.

ht

[Maeght]

Wouldn't the honest answer be that  NO POINT MISSED.
TRUTH IS: There is no point to answer when it comes to free will and the very fact you tried to ignore the truth by making such a stupid remark proves it.

So to test you and your stupid point... What part of free will does not exist when it comes to belief in God... And if does not exist then how come you do not believe?

You knowingly choose to believe in paganism which has been proved to be made up beliefs without any truth about it...

Please do not come here and tell me I don't understand freewill when it comes to Religion or    Paganism... Because I truly understand that you being a pagan was a choice by using your free will/freewill....

It is the emperors new clothes with you every time... Now anyone who is a pagan is clearly showing free will/ Freewill because paganism NEVER SOUGHT YOU OUT, DID IT?

There's a challenge for you horsethorn - trying answering that! (But not for the reasons Sassy imagines though of course).

[Gonnagle]

Dear Me,

And then along comes Horsethorn to remind us all that we are all just star stuff, the universe trying to understand.

Hell!! I can live with that

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon, Bashers and Shaker,

A sinner asks forgiveness, I am about to have a fry up, does it help my case that a innocent tomato is involved.

Gonnagle.

[Sassy]

God and Adam,

If anyone knew about God, even from reading they would know that God knew where Adam was all the time...

Just as Christ...

John 1:46-50 (KJV)

46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.

49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.


You see there is no place we can hide from God wherever we are...

7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

The bible was clearly showing that man thought he could hide from God and he knew that he had done wrong. So naked he hid from his creator.
There is nothing God cannot see and nowhere where is he is not present...But so many willing to believe what they wanted it to mean rather than what it was... Adam thinking that hiding the physical for God that God would not know or see him naked...
God always knows and he knows our choices.. The book of life proves that... written before the foundation of the world. Even Satans moved and ways all known...

[Rhiannon]

Dear Rhiannon, Bashers and Shaker,

A sinner asks forgiveness, I am about to have a fry up, does it help my case that a innocent tomato is involved.

Gonnagle.

Is it vine-ripened?

[jjohnjil]

Dear Rhiannon, Bashers and Shaker,

A sinner asks forgiveness, I am about to have a fry up, does it help my case that a innocent tomato is involved.

Gonnagle.

Is it vine-ripened?

No but I'm sure Sassy is!

[wigginhall]

Gonners, the tomato will be in heaven tonight.  Any fried bread involved?  Yum. 

[jjohnjil]

Gonners, the tomato will be in heaven tonight.  Any fried bread involved?  Yum.

If Gonner's stomach is your idea of Heaven, it isn't mine!

[Rhiannon]

Gonners, the tomato will be in heaven tonight.  Any fried bread involved?  Yum.

Stop it. You've made me hungry now. 

[Gonnagle]

Father,

A humble sinner comes before you in gratitude, gratitude that I was born Glaswegian, I pray that one day my southern cousins will know the joy of the tottie scone, those poor English men and women who only know the fried slice.

Gonnagle

PS Amen.

[horsethorn]

Wouldn't the honest answer be that  NO POINT MISSED.
TRUTH IS: There is no point to answer when it comes to free will and the very fact you tried to ignore the truth by making such a stupid remark proves it.

So to test you and your stupid point... What part of free will does not exist when it comes to belief in God... And if does not exist then how come you do not believe?

You knowingly choose to believe in paganism which has been proved to be made up beliefs without any truth about it...

Please do not come here and tell me I don't understand freewill when it comes to Religion or    Paganism... Because I truly understand that you being a pagan was a choice by using your free will/freewill....

It is the emperors new clothes with you every time... Now anyone who is a pagan is clearly showing free will/ Freewill because paganism NEVER SOUGHT YOU OUT, DID IT?

There's a challenge for you horsethorn - trying answering that! (But not for the reasons Sassy imagines though of course).

I considered it.

But then I realised that she hadn't got my point about not getting the point...

I might have a go after lunch

ht

[ekim]

If 'will' is the intension to act or not act then perhaps you (as consciousness) can become free from 'will' by inner stillness, where desires and other mental activities either cease or cease to have effect.  'Be still and know that I am Being'.

Becoming free from will by inner stillness still requires an act of conscious free will to initiate the stillness.

It requires a number of things ... allowing for the possibility that it is attainable (hope), persistently following a method (faith), allowing for the possibility that the method is sound (belief) and a desire (un-free will) to discover the truth or otherwise of that 'state of being'.  The truth sets you free from these.

[Alan Burns]

The problem with that is Alan's position is a cheat. It denies the position of anyone who disagrees with his position and is a dishonest about the word 'glimpses' since it makes an absolute claim about knowledge.

But the bible clearly indicates that the joys experienced in our earthly life are just a shadow of what we will experience in Heaven.  As this is a Christian topic, I feel justified in sharing this interpretation of God's word without being accused of dishonesty and cheating.

[Nearly Sane]

The problem with that is Alan's position is a cheat. It denies the position of anyone who disagrees with his position and is a dishonest about the word 'glimpses' since it makes an absolute claim about knowledge.

But the bible clearly indicates that the joys experienced in our earthly life are just a shadow of what we will experience in Heaven.  As this is a Christian topic, I feel justified in sharing this interpretation of God's word without being accused of dishonesty and cheating.

Feel justified all you like, perhaps next time you might read what was actually said. In this case I didn't accused you of dishonesty. I merely stated that I regard your position as a cheat and tried to explain why. I don't think you are doing it deliberately, I just think you are missing what the logic of your position is.

That position claims personal experience and revelation as somehow useful but species other people's personal experience while providing no methodology to do so.

[Alan Burns]

Feel justified all you like, perhaps next time you might read what was actually said. In this case I didn't accused you of dishonesty. I merely stated that I regard your position as a cheat and tried to explain why. I don't think you are doing it deliberately, I just think you are missing what the logic of your position is.

That position claims personal experience and revelation as somehow useful but species other people's personal experience while providing no methodology to do so.

I have never come across the word "species" used as a verb befoe, so I don't fully understand your last sentence.

I certainly plead guilty to speaking from personal experiences and revelations.  My own reality is the only one I know.

[Nearly Sane]

Feel justified all you like, perhaps next time you might read what was actually said. In this case I didn't accused you of dishonesty. I merely stated that I regard your position as a cheat and tried to explain why. I don't think you are doing it deliberately, I just think you are missing what the logic of your position is.

That position claims personal experience and revelation as somehow useful but species other people's personal experience while providing no methodology to do so.

I have never come across the word "species" used as a verb befoe, so I don't fully understand your last sentence.

I certainly plead guilty to speaking from personal experiences and revelations.  My own reality is the only one I know.

predictive text  - should be dismisses.

As to the main bit, then fine I cannot disagree with your experience, you cannot disagree with Rhiannon' s but you are making a claim that not only is your experience true for you, it is the truth for everyone.

[Alien]

Feel justified all you like, perhaps next time you might read what was actually said. In this case I didn't accused you of dishonesty. I merely stated that I regard your position as a cheat and tried to explain why. I don't think you are doing it deliberately, I just think you are missing what the logic of your position is.

That position claims personal experience and revelation as somehow useful but species other people's personal experience while providing no methodology to do so.

I have never come across the word "species" used as a verb befoe, so I don't fully understand your last sentence.

I certainly plead guilty to speaking from personal experiences and revelations.  My own reality is the only one I know.

predictive text  - should be dismisses.

As to the main bit, then fine I cannot disagree with your experience, you cannot disagree with Rhiannon' s but you are making a claim that not only is your experience true for you, it is the truth for everyone.

It would be helpful if you could get your predictive text errors sorted out before you post, NS. It happens quite a bit. Checking before you send would be helpful.

[Nearly Sane]

Feel justified all you like, perhaps next time you might read what was actually said. In this case I didn't accused you of dishonesty. I merely stated that I regard your position as a cheat and tried to explain why. I don't think you are doing it deliberately, I just think you are missing what the logic of your position is.

That position claims personal experience and revelation as somehow useful but species other people's personal experience while providing no methodology to do so.

I have never come across the word "species" used as a verb befoe, so I don't fully understand your last sentence.

I certainly plead guilty to speaking from personal experiences and revelations.  My own reality is the only one I know.

predictive text  - should be dismisses.

As to the main bit, then fine I cannot disagree with your experience, you cannot disagree with Rhiannon' s but you are making a claim that not only is your experience true for you, it is the truth for everyone.

It would be helpful if you could get your predictive text errors sorted out before you post, NS. It happens quite a bit. Checking before you send would be helpful.

You like to mention them a lot even when the meaning has been clear. I don't see the importance in general.