Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3874975 times)

Spud

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1425 on: June 20, 2015, 03:29:23 PM »
It was like a cross between a Bonobo and Mrs Rochester from Jane Eyre.........does that help?
Yes, thanks- I'll note it down. We may have a new species emerging. :)

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1426 on: June 20, 2015, 03:54:58 PM »
It was like a cross between a Bonobo and Mrs Rochester from Jane Eyre.........does that help?
Yes, thanks- I'll note it down. We may have a new species emerging. :)

I'm sure new species are emerging all the time, we humans just haven't been around long enough to see it happening, since the progress is painfully slow.

However, I'm not convinced about Jane and her bonobo.  :)

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1427 on: June 20, 2015, 04:35:37 PM »

But where this ties in with Alan's Christian belief I'm not sure.
It was about forty years ago when I had a eureka moment and realised that the human attributes of conscious awareness, free thought and free will could never be fully explained by materialistic science.  And this provided substantial evidence for the existence of a human soul which perceives and interacts with the physical elements of the human brain to facilitate free will, driven by conscious awareness.  And another offshoot was the conclusion that the physical universe is not fully determinate, and intelligent design can occur though acts of intelligenty guided free will.  Forty years on and I have found nothing to contradict my ideas, and much evidence to reinforce them.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1428 on: June 20, 2015, 04:40:03 PM »

Then you are back to a goose having a soul then. If you are still claiming that an inner perceiver is required to make sense and meaning out of all the raw sensory input data then this inner perceiver must exist in all animals that have conscious perception. You're running around in circles.
It would be quite feasible to use computer logic to program all the typical goose responses in a man made robotic goose just using data generated from the basic senses.  There is no need for conscious perception, just programmed reactions.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1429 on: June 20, 2015, 04:42:52 PM »

But where this ties in with Alan's Christian belief I'm not sure.
It was about forty years ago when I had a eureka moment and realised that the human attributes of conscious awareness, free thought and free will could never be fully explained by materialistic science.  And this provided substantial evidence for the existence of a human soul which perceives and interacts with the physical elements of the human brain to facilitate free will, driven by conscious awareness.  And another offshoot was the conclusion that the physical universe is not fully determinate, and intelligent design can occur though acts of intelligenty guided free will.  Forty years on and I have found nothing to contradict my ideas, and much evidence to reinforce them.

The word evidence is a friend of mine, please stop pissing on it

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1430 on: June 20, 2015, 05:08:42 PM »

But where this ties in with Alan's Christian belief I'm not sure.
It was about forty years ago when I had a eureka moment and realised that the human attributes of conscious awareness, free thought and free will could never be fully explained by materialistic science.  And this provided substantial evidence for the existence of a human soul which perceives and interacts with the physical elements of the human brain to facilitate free will, driven by conscious awareness.  And another offshoot was the conclusion that the physical universe is not fully determinate, and intelligent design can occur though acts of intelligenty guided free will.  Forty years on and I have found nothing to contradict my ideas, and much evidence to reinforce them.

Let's hope you have another eureka moment soon Alan.

ippy

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1431 on: June 20, 2015, 07:16:37 PM »
Forty years on and I have found nothing to contradict my ideas, and much evidence to reinforce them.


That is simply because you have a need for them to be right, Alan. The idea of no "God" shakes your very foundations.  :)

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1432 on: June 20, 2015, 07:24:25 PM »

But where this ties in with Alan's Christian belief I'm not sure.
It was about forty years ago when I had a eureka moment and realised that the human attributes of conscious awareness, free thought and free will could never be fully explained by materialistic science.  And this provided substantial evidence for the existence of a human soul which perceives and interacts with the physical elements of the human brain to facilitate free will, driven by conscious awareness.  And another offshoot was the conclusion that the physical universe is not fully determinate, and intelligent design can occur though acts of intelligenty guided free will.  Forty years on and I have found nothing to contradict my ideas, and much evidence to reinforce them.

Let's hope you have another eureka moment soon Alan.

ippy
My eureka moment was just the start of an amazing journey into discovering what our life is about.  There will be no turning back.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1433 on: June 20, 2015, 07:33:14 PM »
Famous last words.

And the tragic thing is that should it happen to you, Alan - I don't know that it will, of course, but it could do, which you deny -, you'll be singularly unprepared for it and will be in absolute pieces.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1434 on: June 20, 2015, 07:42:55 PM »

But where this ties in with Alan's Christian belief I'm not sure.
It was about forty years ago when I had a eureka moment and realised that the human attributes of conscious awareness, free thought and free will could never be fully explained by materialistic science.  And this provided substantial evidence for the existence of a human soul which perceives and interacts with the physical elements of the human brain to facilitate free will, driven by conscious awareness.  And another offshoot was the conclusion that the physical universe is not fully determinate, and intelligent design can occur though acts of intelligenty guided free will.  Forty years on and I have found nothing to contradict my ideas, and much evidence to reinforce them.

The word evidence is a friend of mine, please stop pissing on it
And now Sanctimony on Saturday presented as usual by......................

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1435 on: June 20, 2015, 07:48:55 PM »

My eureka moment was just the start of an amazing journey into discovering what our life is about.


Not really, Alan. It was the start of a false belief taking over your life, which gave you great satisfaction.

Quote
There will be no turning back.

It doesn't matter one way or the other, as long as you're happy.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1436 on: June 20, 2015, 07:52:20 PM »
He doesn't strike me as happy.

I can only go on what he writes, of course, and he would inevitably deny it absolutely, but he strikes me as a rather fearful type with a belief system of spun glass - stretched so thin and so tight that a breath would break it.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1437 on: June 20, 2015, 07:53:11 PM »

Then you are back to a goose having a soul then. If you are still claiming that an inner perceiver is required to make sense and meaning out of all the raw sensory input data then this inner perceiver must exist in all animals that have conscious perception. You're running around in circles.
It would be quite feasible to use computer logic to program all the typical goose responses in a man made robotic goose just using data generated from the basic senses.  There is no need for conscious perception, just programmed reactions.

OK, but you don't believe that other animals in reality are organic robots with no inner feelings do you, so why bring it up ?

If you want this to be taken seriously then take my challenge : go find a dog in the street tonight and give it a damn good kicking.  If you truly believe your line of reasoning then this won't be a problem for you as you see non human creatures as pieces of organic machinery with no actual inner experience, no pain, no hunger, no vision or hearing. In fact in this line of thinking, you must consider the entirety of life on this planet bar humans to be a fraud, some piece of divine trickery on an epic scale designed to fool humans into thinking that there were other creatures around who had similar experience.

Or your alternative is to drop pretending to lines of reasoning that you don't really believe and engage properly with ideas instead of dancing round them like a handbags on the dancefloor.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 07:54:42 PM by torridon »

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1438 on: June 20, 2015, 07:57:00 PM »

But where this ties in with Alan's Christian belief I'm not sure.
It was about forty years ago when I had a eureka moment and realised that the human attributes of conscious awareness, free thought and free will could never be fully explained by materialistic science.  And this provided substantial evidence for the existence of a human soul which perceives and interacts with the physical elements of the human brain to facilitate free will, driven by conscious awareness.  And another offshoot was the conclusion that the physical universe is not fully determinate, and intelligent design can occur though acts of intelligenty guided free will.  Forty years on and I have found nothing to contradict my ideas, and much evidence to reinforce them.

Clearly you haven't been reading posts on this thread for a start, then.  But then you always give that impression anyhow  :(

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1439 on: June 20, 2015, 07:57:33 PM »
OK, but you don't believe that other animals in reality are organic robots with no inner feelings do you, so why bring it up ?
He probably does, torridon.

Quote
... you must consider the entirety of life on this planet bar humans to be a fraud, some piece of divine trickery on an epic scale designed to fool humans into thinking that there were other creatures around who had similar experience.
A far wiser in some ways and in many ways equally stupid man called Rene Descartes believed exactly and precisely this (described by another contemporary philosopher in a book I've just read as being famous chiefly for being wrong about pretty much everything), and he is unaccountably regarded as a great philosopher within the Western tradition. 

« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 08:05:24 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1440 on: June 20, 2015, 08:02:40 PM »
It was about forty years ago when I had a eureka moment and realised that the human attributes of conscious awareness, free thought and free will could never be fully explained by materialistic science.  And this provided substantial evidence for the existence of a human soul which perceives and interacts with the physical elements of the human brain to facilitate free will, driven by conscious awareness.  And another offshoot was the conclusion that the physical universe is not fully determinate, and intelligent design can occur though acts of intelligenty guided free will.  Forty years on and I have found nothing to contradict my ideas, and much evidence to reinforce them.

Let's hope you have another eureka moment soon Alan.

ippy
My eureka moment was just the start of an amazing journey into discovering what our life is about.  There will be no turning back.

Well thats a shame because I think your headed in the wrong direction unfortunately.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1441 on: June 20, 2015, 08:30:34 PM »

But where this ties in with Alan's Christian belief I'm not sure.
It was about forty years ago when I had a eureka moment and realised that the human attributes of conscious awareness, free thought and free will could never be fully explained by materialistic science.  And this provided substantial evidence for the existence of a human soul which perceives and interacts with the physical elements of the human brain to facilitate free will, driven by conscious awareness.  And another offshoot was the conclusion that the physical universe is not fully determinate, and intelligent design can occur though acts of intelligenty guided free will.  Forty years on and I have found nothing to contradict my ideas, and much evidence to reinforce them.

Let's hope you have another eureka moment soon Alan.

ippy
My eureka moment was just the start of an amazing journey into discovering what our life is about.  There will be no turning back.

You still need another eureka moment Alan believe me, or something like a wakey wakey call might do it, it'd be an equally good type of moment for you.

Your journey would be even more amazing if you could find anything that could establish it as a part of reality instead of being a part of your more than likely overdeveloped sense of imagination.

A very sad case, I suppose it takes all types?

ippy

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1442 on: June 20, 2015, 08:56:21 PM »
Famous last words.

And the tragic thing is that should it happen to you, Alan - I don't know that it will, of course, but it could do, which you deny -, you'll be singularly unprepared for it and will be in absolute pieces.

My faith was once as deep and as devout as Alan's. I gave my life to God and experienced what felt like a relationship with him.

I know it feels better for some believers to blame me for losing my faith. The alternative is either to think their God isn't as nice or as powerful as they'd thought - or that they might lose their faith one day, too.

If it can happen to me it can happen to anyone.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1443 on: June 20, 2015, 09:01:44 PM »
OK, but you don't believe that other animals in reality are organic robots with no inner feelings do you, so why bring it up ?
He probably does, torridon.

Quote
... you must consider the entirety of life on this planet bar humans to be a fraud, some piece of divine trickery on an epic scale designed to fool humans into thinking that there were other creatures around who had similar experience.
A far wiser in some ways and in many ways equally stupid man called Rene Descartes believed exactly and precisely this (described by another contemporary philosopher in a book I've just read as being famous chiefly for being wrong about pretty much everything), and he is unaccountably regarded as a great philosopher within the Western tradition.

i think therefore I talk bollocks.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1444 on: June 20, 2015, 09:02:45 PM »

Then you are back to a goose having a soul then. If you are still claiming that an inner perceiver is required to make sense and meaning out of all the raw sensory input data then this inner perceiver must exist in all animals that have conscious perception. You're running around in circles.
It would be quite feasible to use computer logic to program all the typical goose responses in a man made robotic goose just using data generated from the basic senses.  There is no need for conscious perception, just programmed reactions.

OK, but you don't believe that other animals in reality are organic robots with no inner feelings do you, so why bring it up ?

If you want this to be taken seriously then take my challenge : go find a dog in the street tonight and give it a damn good kicking.  If you truly believe your line of reasoning then this won't be a problem for you as you see non human creatures as pieces of organic machinery with no actual inner experience, no pain, no hunger, no vision or hearing. In fact in this line of thinking, you must consider the entirety of life on this planet bar humans to be a fraud, some piece of divine trickery on an epic scale designed to fool humans into thinking that there were other creatures around who had similar experience.

Or your alternative is to drop pretending to lines of reasoning that you don't really believe and engage properly with ideas instead of dancing round them like a handbags on the dancefloor.

Excellent post.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1445 on: June 20, 2015, 11:13:19 PM »
He doesn't strike me as happy.

I can only go on what he writes, of course, and he would inevitably deny it absolutely, but he strikes me as a rather fearful type with a belief system of spun glass - stretched so thin and so tight that a breath would break it.
You could not be more wrong
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1446 on: June 20, 2015, 11:14:19 PM »
I thought you might say that. Thought it so much that I actually said so, in fact.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1447 on: June 20, 2015, 11:18:15 PM »
He doesn't strike me as happy.

I can only go on what he writes, of course, and he would inevitably deny it absolutely, but he strikes me as a rather fearful type with a belief system of spun glass - stretched so thin and so tight that a breath would break it.

Anybody so fixated it his ant-religion stance, to the extent that he"wibbles"  ;) on about it for years, doesn't strike me as being very happy in life.  In fact, I think he sounds like a lost soul, striking out at those who are happy in their beliefs, out of pure envy.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 11:28:55 PM by BashfulAnthony »
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1448 on: June 20, 2015, 11:22:54 PM »
No, it's called having a low tolerance for bullshit.

People may well be happy believing bullshit, of course - it's called a fool's paradise; but the trouble with a fool's paradise is that it's full of fools.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 11:24:36 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1449 on: June 20, 2015, 11:27:07 PM »
No, it's called having a low tolerance for bullshit.

Well, instead of having to tolerate what is such anathema, why not just walk away?
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."