Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3863569 times)

Alien

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1750 on: June 28, 2015, 10:04:50 AM »
And I find it very, very difficult to square the suffering others have had to endure with an omnipotent loving creator God.
But just look at how God answers this in the book of Job.  On earth we see just a tiny fragment of the whole picture of creation.  It is equivalent to passing judgement on the author of "Lord of the Rings" by just reading a single paragraph about Frodo and Sam in the depths of Mordor.  We are unaware of the start game and the end.  We just have this tiny snippet of life on earth, and the Devil will tempt us to base all our judgements on this, but God asks us to trust him, keep faith and know that all will be well.

I like your parallel with some fiction that's equally as factious as the one you believe in Alan.

ippy
I think it is generally accepted that the book of Job is a piece of divinely inspired fiction written to illustrate a very important point.
Accepted by whom, Alan? Not by atheists.
Quote
It is a brilliant piece of writing which highlights the shallowness of human thinking, as shown in the advice given by Job's friends.  Contrasted with this is the profound wisdom of God shown in His speech to Job at the end of the book.  Two and a half thousand years on and the shallowness of human thinking is still very evident.
Agreed.
Apparently 99.9975% atheist because I believe in one out of 4000 believed in (an atheist on Facebook). Yes, check the maths as well.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1751 on: June 28, 2015, 01:56:15 PM »

I think it is generally accepted that the book of Job is a piece of divinely inspired fiction written to illustrate a very important point.

There you go again with "divinely inspired"! How can you possibly know that? You simply believe it because a couple of the Bible authors said it was. Can you not see how gullible that is?

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1752 on: June 28, 2015, 01:57:36 PM »
No, he can't.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1753 on: June 28, 2015, 02:05:48 PM »

I think it is generally accepted that the book of Job is a piece of divinely inspired fiction written to illustrate a very important point.

There you go again with "divinely inspired"! How can you possibly know that? You simply believe it because a couple of the Bible authors said it was. Can you not see how gullible that is?
Until you have personally experienced an act of divine inspiration you will never be able to understand the concept.
John 15:16 You did not choose me, I chose you.  I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit,
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 02:13:50 PM by Alan Burns »
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1754 on: June 28, 2015, 02:14:02 PM »

Until you have personally experienced an act of divine inspiration you will never be able to understand the concept.
John 15:16 You did not choose me, I chose you

I presume from that comment that you think you have experienced such a thing, but you have no way of knowing that. How can you possibly know that the experience was not auto-generated by your religion indoctrinated brain?

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1755 on: June 28, 2015, 02:21:51 PM »
And I find it very, very difficult to square the suffering others have had to endure with an omnipotent loving creator God.
But just look at how God answers this in the book of Job.  On earth we see just a tiny fragment of the whole picture of creation.  It is equivalent to passing judgement on the author of "Lord of the Rings" by just reading a single paragraph about Frodo and Sam in the depths of Mordor.  We are unaware of the start game and the end.  We just have this tiny snippet of life on earth, and the Devil will tempt us to base all our judgements on this, but God asks us to trust him, keep faith and know that all will be well.

I like your parallel with some fiction that's equally as factious as the one you believe in Alan.

ippy
I think it is generally accepted that the book of Job is a piece of divinely inspired fiction written to illustrate a very important point.  It is a brilliant piece of writing which highlights the shallowness of human thinking, as shown in the advice given by Job's friends.  Contrasted with this is the profound wisdom of God shown in His speech to Job at the end of the book.  Two and a half thousand years on and the shallowness of human thinking is still very evident.

Thanks Alan, you have again illustrated a gulf in your understanding of those people that are not necessarily your enemies.

I'm sure and willing to accept that there many words of wisdom in your book and although you seem to think, in this case, the book of Job is generally accepted to be divinely inspired, so you say.

I would be more inclined to think you and your fellow travelers underestimate your fellow mans ability and as you know every so often great people are born where their genes, fortunately for us, all come together in the right formations and we end up with the odd genius from time to time.

In all of our past records these famous and outstanding people a large amount of them would have had religious beliefs not unusual of or for their times, where else could they go to acquire any kind of education? 

We now know better about genes, genealogy to a point where we are learning something new virtually every day the gaps are closing, not just in those subjects all kinds of knowledge; how boring if we knew all of it.

So as for your reference to the divine well it's loosing chalks in lots of directions such as that particularly mind numbing where something very complicated becomes, "it must have been a goddidit", which in your case instead of goddidit we substitute divine as a stand in for goddit; not exactly a very deep expression some kind of what you think of as superior knowledge.

Your post isn't a particularly inspiring advertisement for bronze age thought although I'm sure it was state of the art thinking circa 2000 years ago; looks child like to me, honestly Alan, "divine".

ippy

   

Gonnagle

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1756 on: June 28, 2015, 02:51:45 PM »
Dearie Me,

Over 18 hundred posts, I miss Luther Wesley Baxter ::) ::)

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1757 on: June 28, 2015, 02:52:43 PM »
Dearie Me,

Over 18 hundred posts, I miss Luther Wesley Baxter ::) ::)

Gonnagle.

Have a wee dram and you might get over it! ;D

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1758 on: June 28, 2015, 02:54:27 PM »
Dearie Me,

Over 18 hundred posts, I miss Luther Wesley Baxter ::) ::)

Gonnagle.
he's busy standing in all the rainbows round the world since the Supreme Court decision

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1759 on: June 28, 2015, 03:37:01 PM »
And I find it very, very difficult to square the suffering others have had to endure with an omnipotent loving creator God.
But just look at how God answers this in the book of Job.  On earth we see just a tiny fragment of the whole picture of creation.  It is equivalent to passing judgement on the author of "Lord of the Rings" by just reading a single paragraph about Frodo and Sam in the depths of Mordor.  We are unaware of the start game and the end.  We just have this tiny snippet of life on earth, and the Devil will tempt us to base all our judgements on this, but God asks us to trust him, keep faith and know that all will be well.

I like your parallel with some fiction that's equally as factious as the one you believe in Alan.

ippy
I think it is generally accepted that the book of Job is a piece of divinely inspired fiction written to illustrate a very important point.  It is a brilliant piece of writing which highlights the shallowness of human thinking, as shown in the advice given by Job's friends.  Contrasted with this is the profound wisdom of God shown in His speech to Job at the end of the book.  Two and a half thousand years on and the shallowness of human thinking is still very evident.

Thanks Alan, you have again illustrated a gulf in your understanding of those people that are not necessarily your enemies.

I'm sure and willing to accept that there many words of wisdom in your book and although you seem to think, in this case, the book of Job is generally accepted to be divinely inspired, so you say.

I would be more inclined to think you and your fellow travelers underestimate your fellow mans ability and as you know every so often great people are born where their genes, fortunately for us, all come together in the right formations and we end up with the odd genius from time to time.

In all of our past records these famous and outstanding people a large amount of them would have had religious beliefs not unusual of or for their times, where else could they go to acquire any kind of education? 

We now know better about genes, genealogy to a point where we are learning something new virtually every day the gaps are closing, not just in those subjects all kinds of knowledge; how boring if we knew all of it.

So as for your reference to the divine well it's loosing chalks in lots of directions such as that particularly mind numbing where something very complicated becomes, "it must have been a goddidit", which in your case instead of goddidit we substitute divine as a stand in for goddit; not exactly a very deep expression some kind of what you think of as superior knowledge.

Your post isn't a particularly inspiring advertisement for bronze age thought although I'm sure it was state of the art thinking circa 2000 years ago; looks child like to me, honestly Alan, "divine".

ippy

   

It's rich you criticising 2,000-year-old thought:  it's more than you are capable of, still dealing in "fairy" and "magic" language!
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1760 on: June 28, 2015, 03:38:36 PM »
It's rich you criticising 2,000-year-old thought:  it's more than you are capable of, still dealing in "fairy" and "magic" language!
People who believe in an entity they can't define doing things they don't understand by means they can't explain are dealing in magic, are they not?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1761 on: June 28, 2015, 03:41:21 PM »
It's rich you criticising 2,000-year-old thought:  it's more than you are capable of, still dealing in "fairy" and "magic" language!
People who believe in an entity they can't define doing things they don't understand by means they can't explain are dealing in magic, are they not?

No, only to morons who lack the ability or inclination to see further than the end of their nose.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1762 on: June 28, 2015, 03:42:50 PM »
No, only to morons who lack the ability or inclination to see further than the end of their nose.
Well, I don't see much any validation of these beliefs and even, for the terminally clueless, bald assertions so regularly flung around here like shit in the chimpanzee enclosure.

Looks like magic to me.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1763 on: June 28, 2015, 03:45:45 PM »
No, only to morons who lack the ability or inclination to see further than the end of their nose.
Well, I don't see much any validation of these beliefs and even, for the terminally clueless, bald assertions so regularly flung around here like shit in the chimpanzee enclosure.

Looks like magic to me.

So, you believe in magic then?  Watching, Ippy?  Shaker has admitted he's a magic adherent.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1764 on: June 28, 2015, 03:46:57 PM »
So, you believe in magic then?  Listening, Ippy?  Shaker has admitted he's a magic adherent.
No. For somebody who purports to be a teacher your grasp of English is utterly abysmal.

I don't believe in magic.

Supernaturalists by definition are believers in magic.

I'm not a supernaturalist, which brings us neatly back to ...

What looks like magic is the content of the beliefs that supernaturalists claim that they hold.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1765 on: June 28, 2015, 03:49:29 PM »

Well, I don't see  ignore any validation of these beliefs
FIFY again
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1766 on: June 28, 2015, 03:52:29 PM »
So, you believe in magic then?  Listening, Ippy?  Shaker has admitted he's a magic adherent.
No. For somebody who purports to be a teacher your grasp of English is utterly abysmal.

I don't believe in magic.

Supernaturalists by definition are believers in magic.

I'm not a supernaturalist, which brings us neatly back to ...

As a teacher I believe you should say what you mean, and be clear.  You said, "Looks like magic, to me."  That can have only one meaning  -  until you realise your gaffe, and then start your usual squirming.  Usually followed by insults and bluster, on the principle of, best form of defence is attack.. Sorry, Shaking, you're busted!
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1767 on: June 28, 2015, 03:52:40 PM »

Well, I don't see  ignore any validation of these beliefs
FIFY again
Kindly stop tinkering with my posts to make them read as you think they should have been written according to what passes for your thoughts rather than the way they were actually written according to mine. I am perfectly capable of responding to and exposing your endless parade of logical fallacies, sloppy thinking, general credulity and bald assertions on their own terms, as written by you, without having to resort to editing your posts. This is not "fixing" but blatant dishonesty. I don't do it to your posts; I expect to be accorded the same minimal privilege.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 03:58:18 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1768 on: June 28, 2015, 03:54:37 PM »
You said, "Looks like magic, to me."  That can have only one meaning
Er, no it can't - unless your grasp of the English language, already pretty shaky, is even worse than I had ever previously believed, as you are confirming with each passing post.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1769 on: June 28, 2015, 03:55:30 PM »

Well, I don't see  ignore any validation of these beliefs
FIFY again

Come now, Alan, that is simply a lie. None of us ignore your validations, we just point out the weakness of them.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1770 on: June 28, 2015, 04:04:41 PM »
You said, "Looks like magic, to me."  That can have only one meaning
Er, no it can't - unless your grasp of the English language, already pretty shaky, is even worse than I had ever previously believe

My grasp of English far exceeds yours, as you silly remark typifies. So, Squirm away, as usual.    So what, now you've had time to think of an alternative meaning, does, "Looks like magic, to me," now mean?
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1771 on: June 28, 2015, 04:07:02 PM »
My grasp of English far exceeds yours, as you [your] silly remark typifies. So, Squirm [unneccessary capitalisation] away, as usual.    [Unnecessary space] So what, now you've had time to think of an alternative meaning, does, "Looks like magic, to me," now [unnecessary repetition of the word 'now'] mean?

That's a grasp of English which exceeds mine, is it? Christ  ::)

I adhere to the old maxim of never arguing with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 04:08:58 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1772 on: June 28, 2015, 04:08:19 PM »
My grasp of English far exceeds yours, as you silly remark typifies. So, Squirm away, as usual.    So what, now you've had time to think of an alternative meaning, does, "Looks like magic, to me," now mean?

That a grasp of English which exceeds mine, is it? Christ  ::)

I adhere to the old maxim of never arguing with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

My Dad's bigger than both of your Dads.

ippy

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1773 on: June 28, 2015, 04:20:12 PM »

Well, I don't see  ignore any validation of these beliefs
FIFY again
Kindly stop tinkering with my posts to make them read as you think they should have been written according to what passes for your thoughts rather than the way they were actually written according to mine. I am perfectly capable of responding to and exposing your endless parade of logical fallacies, sloppy thinking, general credulity and bald assertions on their own terms, as written by you, without having to resort to editing your posts. This is not "fixing" but blatant dishonesty. I don't do it to your posts; I expect to be accorded the same minimal privilege.
Sorry, It seems I get carried away with my frustration of people seemingly blinded to what I see as the obvious truth.  I confess that I can only see what is real to me, and find it impossible to see any other reality.  (And you may probably say the same thing  ;) )
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1774 on: June 28, 2015, 04:22:23 PM »
Sorry, It seems I get carried awaywith my frustration of people seemingly blinded to what I see as the obvious truth.  I confess that I can only see what is real to me, and find it impossible to see any other reality.  (And you may probably say the same thing  ;) )
Well, you could do what everybody else is expected to do if they want a seat at the grown-up table: introduce your terms, define your terms clearly and carefully, and mount cogent, coherent, logical arguments.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.