Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3870268 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1900 on: July 02, 2015, 02:10:01 PM »
...  it is abundantly clear that people do not seek the truth regarding God but simply reasons to keep from believing in him.

Sass,
I think the contents of neary two thousand posts on this thread shows that your opening comment above has been well verified.

There is NO verifiable truth regarding the existence of any deity, anyone who states there is LIES! ::)
Verifiable truth? Verifiable by whom?

What about the existence of the Christian God just being the best explanation?

Verifiable by a methodology - have you got one yet?
Yes, thanks.
Quote

Best explanation for what?
The life, death and alleged resurrection of Jesus Christ, for starters. Bung in the philosophical arguments and, yes, it is the best explanation.

When you get your methodology for the supernatural be sure to let us know what it is.

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1901 on: July 02, 2015, 03:33:06 PM »

"Spirituality," for me, is "an awareness that there is something far greater than we are, something that created this universe, created life and that we are an authentic, important, significant part of it, and can contribute to its evolution.” - Elizabeth-Kubler-Ross.
I suppose given she taught Jesus when she was Isabel she might claim to know something

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20074920,00.html

From the above:

Quote
Kübler-Ross is equally unswerving in her belief in an afterlife. Until meeting Barham, she says, she had encountered only one entity, named Willie, but has since met three others—Aenka, Salem and Mario. She sometimes plays a tape recording to audiences of a male voice talking and singing, and identifies it as Willie's. She also maintains she lived during the time of Christ as "Isabel," one of his teachers.

Mercy on us! Is Bashers now quoting from a Swiss 'psychologist' who seems to have swallowed the beliefs of Spiritualism and Reincarnation? He'll be quoting Shirley MacClean next on how she was once Queen Nefertiti, or something (strange how these celebrity pundits never record their incarnations as kipper-smokers or turnip-pullers). Well, good old Bashers - this from the man who had the audacity to say that "Bishop John Robinson was a loony whose theology was weak".

All these sad "experts" on philosophy, theology, psychology, science generally; all-knowing experts.  In reality, a bunch of has-been nerds sitting in their little back-rooms, googling like crazy and pontificating about things they really have no perception of.   Get a life; get wise. You are pathetic.   (Sits back and waits for the usual reaction of vitriol and denial.)

Saw another woman breast-feeding in public today*, Bashers. Have you noticed the phenomenon yet? Are you getting out a bit more these days?
As for the above - I don't have to make a song and dance about what I have read, because it is self-evidently considerably more than you have. I have been very patient with you, but the only bit of scholarship you seem to have come up with in recent months is a few notes you dredged up from your student days at Neasden Teacher Training College or wherever.
And your quote, hypocrite, was self-evidently obtained by your frantic googling - which you obviously didn't bother to check. Just accept you made yourself look a complete chump.


*It was in Caffe Nero, Corn Street, Bristol. I'm told that on tuesdays there is a regular gathering of young mothers there. If you're ever in that part of the country, you might like to pop in on tuesdays, just to update this long-overdue aspect of your limited life-experience.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 04:28:31 PM by Dicky Underpants »
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Alien

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1902 on: July 02, 2015, 05:14:45 PM »
Something supernatural would not explain anything.
Atheist mantra alert!

If it was atheist mantra, you wouldn't get people like wigginhall agreeing.
Why not? I didn't say it was "atheist-only mantra".

Well you're either atheist or you're not, so it's just mantra then and there's no need to say it's atheist.
It's a mantra used by some of the atheists here. That's near enough for me to call it an "atheist mantra". "Atheist-and-friends mantra" is not quite so catchy.
Apparently 99.9975% atheist because I believe in one out of 4000 believed in (an atheist on Facebook). Yes, check the maths as well.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1903 on: July 02, 2015, 05:17:59 PM »
It's a mantra used by some of the atheists here. That's near enough for me to call it an "atheist mantra". "Atheist-and-friends mantra" is not quite so catchy.
It's certainly one way of avoiding having to deal with the meat of that so-called 'mantra,' I guess.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Andy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1904 on: July 02, 2015, 05:30:10 PM »
Something supernatural would not explain anything.
Atheist mantra alert!

If it was atheist mantra, you wouldn't get people like wigginhall agreeing.
Why not? I didn't say it was "atheist-only mantra".

Well you're either atheist or you're not, so it's just mantra then and there's no need to say it's atheist.
It's a mantra used by some of the atheists here. That's near enough for me to call it an "atheist mantra". "Atheist-and-friends mantra" is not quite so catchy.

Plus that would mean including yourself since we're all friends...  :o

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1905 on: July 02, 2015, 05:32:53 PM »

"Spirituality," for me, is "an awareness that there is something far greater than we are, something that created this universe, created life and that we are an authentic, important, significant part of it, and can contribute to its evolution.” - Elizabeth-Kubler-Ross.
I suppose given she taught Jesus when she was Isabel she might claim to know something

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20074920,00.html

From the above:

Quote
Kübler-Ross is equally unswerving in her belief in an afterlife. Until meeting Barham, she says, she had encountered only one entity, named Willie, but has since met three others—Aenka, Salem and Mario. She sometimes plays a tape recording to audiences of a male voice talking and singing, and identifies it as Willie's. She also maintains she lived during the time of Christ as "Isabel," one of his teachers.

Mercy on us! Is Bashers now quoting from a Swiss 'psychologist' who seems to have swallowed the beliefs of Spiritualism and Reincarnation? He'll be quoting Shirley MacClean next on how she was once Queen Nefertiti, or something (strange how these celebrity pundits never record their incarnations as kipper-smokers or turnip-pullers). Well, good old Bashers - this from the man who had the audacity to say that "Bishop John Robinson was a loony whose theology was weak".

All these sad "experts" on philosophy, theology, psychology, science generally; all-knowing experts.  In reality, a bunch of has-been nerds sitting in their little back-rooms, googling like crazy and pontificating about things they really have no perception of.   Get a life; get wise. You are pathetic.   (Sits back and waits for the usual reaction of vitriol and denial.)

Saw another woman breast-feeding in public today*, Bashers. Have you noticed the phenomenon yet? Are you getting out a bit more these days?

As for the above - I don't have to make a song and dance about what I have read, because it is self-evidently considerably more than you have. I have been very patient with you, but the only bit of scholarship you seem to have come up with in recent months is a few notes you dredged up from your student days at Neasden Teacher Training College or wherever.
And your quote, hypocrite, was self-evidently obtained by your frantic googling - which you obviously didn't bother to check. Just accept you made yourself look a complete chump.


*It was in Caffe Nero, Corn Street, Bristol. I'm told that on tuesdays there is a regular gathering of young mothers there. If you're ever in that part of the country, you might like to pop in on tuesdays, just to update this long-overdue aspect of your limited life-experience.

What a cheap comment from a cheap and uninformed poster.  Come to think of it, all your posts are cheap and uninformed.  I don't know why you bother.  Just concentrate on looking for breast-feeding women, which seems to be your predilection.

I have more knowledge of Christianity than you can dream of in your tiny, biased mind, in your little upstairs room.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 07:17:09 PM by BashfulAnthony »
BA.

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It is my commandment that you love one another."

Alien

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1906 on: July 02, 2015, 07:15:26 PM »
Something supernatural would not explain anything.
Atheist mantra alert!

If it was atheist mantra, you wouldn't get people like wigginhall agreeing.
Why not? I didn't say it was "atheist-only mantra".

Well you're either atheist or you're not, so it's just mantra then and there's no need to say it's atheist.
It's a mantra used by some of the atheists here. That's near enough for me to call it an "atheist mantra". "Atheist-and-friends mantra" is not quite so catchy.

Plus that would mean including yourself since we're all friends...  :o
Big hug (platonic) for Andy from me then.
Apparently 99.9975% atheist because I believe in one out of 4000 believed in (an atheist on Facebook). Yes, check the maths as well.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1907 on: July 02, 2015, 09:24:01 PM »

People can seek the truth about God and still not have a belief in God you know.
It is my fervent hope that everyone on this forum is seeking the truth about God, (even if they do not realise it).   And it is my prayer that they will find Him.

God bless you, everyone.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1908 on: July 02, 2015, 09:26:18 PM »

People can seek the truth about God and still not have a belief in God you know.
It is my fervent hope that everyone on this forum is seeking the truth about God, (even if they do not realise it).   And it is my prayer that they will find Him.

God bless you, everyone.

Amen to that.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

savillerow

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1909 on: July 02, 2015, 10:02:43 PM »
Msg 1979 "I have more knowledge of christianity". . . . .so what. Stories, no proof and endless endless interpretation by anyone and everyone who thinks they can piece this very odd collection of ancient hearsay together.
i know this is hard for theists to agree with but . . . .we are flying this planet.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1910 on: July 02, 2015, 10:22:13 PM »

People can seek the truth about God and still not have a belief in God you know.
It is my fervent hope that everyone on this forum is seeking the truth about God, (even if they do not realise it).   And it is my prayer that they will find Him.
Why?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1911 on: July 03, 2015, 06:03:31 AM »

People can seek the truth about God and still not have a belief in God you know.
It is my fervent hope that everyone on this forum is seeking the truth about God, (even if they do not realise it).   And it is my prayer that they will find Him.


If God wants people to find him then he really ought to stop hiding.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1912 on: July 03, 2015, 06:17:22 AM »

People can seek the truth about God and still not have a belief in God you know.
It is my fervent hope that everyone on this forum is seeking the truth about God, (even if they do not realise it).   And it is my prayer that they will find Him.

God bless you, everyone.

Alan, everybody who needs a god will find one, which one depends on where they happen to be born or live.

Those that are lucky enough to realise they don't need one will have found the truth. The less fortunate will remain ensnared in their superstition.


Maeght

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1913 on: July 03, 2015, 08:01:29 AM »

People can seek the truth about God and still not have a belief in God you know.
It is my fervent hope that everyone on this forum is seeking the truth about God, (even if they do not realise it).   And it is my prayer that they will find Him.


I'm sure that is the case as a believer but it is a fact that people do seek and not find.

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1914 on: July 03, 2015, 12:16:59 PM »
It's rich you criticising 2,000-year-old thought:  it's more than you are capable of, still dealing in "fairy" and "magic" language!
People who believe in an entity they can't define doing things they don't understand by means they can't explain are dealing in magic, are they not?

But the amount of healing accounted to God would suggest you can write the possibility of God existing off... Arrrh wait a minute... you are not interested in all the facts... You have selective issues about truth when it comes to proving if God exists... You ignore all the possibilities which suggest he does exist.. sticking fingers in ears and closing eyes just in case you may have to consider then and prove yourself wrong... :D
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BeRational

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1915 on: July 03, 2015, 12:21:45 PM »
It's rich you criticising 2,000-year-old thought:  it's more than you are capable of, still dealing in "fairy" and "magic" language!
People who believe in an entity they can't define doing things they don't understand by means they can't explain are dealing in magic, are they not?

But the amount of healing accounted to God would suggest you can write the possibility of God existing off... Arrrh wait a minute... you are not interested in all the facts... You have selective issues about truth when it comes to proving if God exists... You ignore all the possibilities which suggest he does exist.. sticking fingers in ears and closing eyes just in case you may have to consider then and prove yourself wrong... :D

As far as we can tell God has done no healing at all, ever, anywhere.

People make daft claims all the time, but daft claims do not make it real
I see gullible people, everywhere!

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1916 on: July 03, 2015, 01:50:35 PM »
It's rich you criticising 2,000-year-old thought:  it's more than you are capable of, still dealing in "fairy" and "magic" language!
People who believe in an entity they can't define doing things they don't understand by means they can't explain are dealing in magic, are they not?

But the amount of healing accounted to God would suggest you can write the possibility of God existing off... Arrrh wait a minute... you are not interested in all the facts... You have selective issues about truth when it comes to proving if God exists... You ignore all the possibilities which suggest he does exist.. sticking fingers in ears and closing eyes just in case you may have to consider then and prove yourself wrong... :D

Which possibilities, cos Sass sez so? ;D

jjohnjil

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1917 on: July 03, 2015, 02:08:32 PM »
It's rich you criticising 2,000-year-old thought:  it's more than you are capable of, still dealing in "fairy" and "magic" language!
People who believe in an entity they can't define doing things they don't understand by means they can't explain are dealing in magic, are they not?

But the amount of healing accounted to God would suggest you can write the possibility of God existing off... Arrrh wait a minute... you are not interested in all the facts... You have selective issues about truth when it comes to proving if God exists... You ignore all the possibilities which suggest he does exist.. sticking fingers in ears and closing eyes just in case you may have to consider then and prove yourself wrong... :D

Sassy

Where do you get this idea from, that atheists try not to find this God you're always on about?  If we thought there was the remotest chance that somewhere up above - only he knows where - lurks an all powerful entity that doesn't like being disbelieved and tortures unbelievers for all eternity, there isn't one of us who wouldn't be shaking in our boots in case we were for the high jump! 

We do not search for God in the same way you do not search for the wicked Fairy Queen!  Do you stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes in case you're proved wrong about her?  Of course you don't because you think she, like you, is away with the fairies!

We also look on the book that you repeatedly quote to us in great big capitals, in the same way you look on the big book of Spiderman, because we see it as just as much fiction!

Please try arguing from a reality point of view instead of the fantasy POV you've got in the habit of doing.

Maeght

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1918 on: July 03, 2015, 05:47:14 PM »

But the amount of healing accounted to God would suggest you can write the possibility of God existing off... Arrrh wait a minute... you are not interested in all the facts...

Anyone can account anything to God but demonstrating divine intervention as a fact rather thsan belief is another thing. Any examples of where this has been shown?

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1919 on: July 03, 2015, 09:34:36 PM »
It's rich you criticising 2,000-year-old thought:  it's more than you are capable of, still dealing in "fairy" and "magic" language!
People who believe in an entity they can't define doing things they don't understand by means they can't explain are dealing in magic, are they not?

But the amount of healing accounted to God would suggest you can write the possibility of God existing off... Arrrh wait a minute... you are not interested in all the facts... You have selective issues about truth when it comes to proving if God exists... You ignore all the possibilities which suggest he does exist.. sticking fingers in ears and closing eyes just in case you may have to consider then and prove yourself wrong... :D

As far as we can tell God has done no healing at all, ever, anywhere.

People make daft claims all the time, but daft claims do not make it real
Yes, you can often find a rational explanation for an apparently miraculous healing, but what often happens is that the healing coincides with a prayer in a way which is just too difficult to pass off as a coincidence.

I related the following true story in a previous thread.  All the following posts tried to comment on the viability of the healing of John's aortic aneurysm, but no one commented on the coincidence of the bible reading I had just minutes before this healing took place.

I was in hospital having treatment for severe eczema.  I get woken by a nurse in the middle of the night saying there is an urgent phone call from my wife.  I am very sleepy after being dosed with antihistamines.  I drag myself out of bed, put on my dressing gown and go to the desk.  My wife tells me her father, John, has been rushed into hospital with an aortic aneurysm, and he is dying.  She wants to travel to Blackpool immediately, and she wants me to be with her.  She has already explained to the hospital staff and they have agreed to let me go with a bag full of medical supplies to keep me going.  So my wife picks me up and we are on our way to Blackpool - a two hour journey across the Pennines.  On route we say several decades of the rosary.  When we arrive we are greeted by the ward sister who informs us we are just in time, she tells my wife that her father has just a short time left - he is on a morphine drip and has oxygen to relieve the discomfort.  His pulse is getting very weak.  His liver and kidneys are failing.  He is unconscious and the sister says "He will not regain consciousness - if he does it will be a miracle".  His wife and other daughter are at his bedside.  My wife goes off to the toilet, and I later find out she has been on her knees saying another prayer.  When she comes back, she hands me her pocket bible and asks me to read something.  It is a red Gideon bible containing new testament and psalms which gets handed out to staff and pupils in her school.  I do not search - I just open it at a page and read the following from the end of Psalm 91:
"Because he loves me," says the Lord, "I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
He will call upon me and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver and honour him.
With long life will I satisfy him
and show him my salvation."
I looked up from the bible at John, still unconscious and thought :
"Is it really possible?"
I showed the passage to my wife, and she tried to show it to her mother, but she was too upset to read it.  A few moments later, John coughed and we lifted the oxygen mask away.  He opened his eyes and told us all to clear off.  We called the nurse, and we were all ushered out as more medical staff came to help.  John made a full recovery and had several more years healthy life during which time he was able to look after his wife who was becoming frail with arthritis.  My own eczema also healed up shortly afterwards and I have been free of eczema ever since.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

BeRational

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1920 on: July 03, 2015, 11:31:02 PM »
Alan Burns

You are wrong.

It is just coincidence and remembering the hits and ignoring the misses.

Really trivial stuff
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Maeght

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1921 on: July 04, 2015, 01:16:26 AM »
Absolutely. Coincidences happen all the time, people remember things differently than what actually happened, they remember what seems to fit and forget what doesn't, they embellish with the retelling, and for all the apparent answered prayers there are many more apparently unanswered prayers. Believers will say that why God answers some and not others cannot be fathomed by man, or some such 'reasoning', but isn't it really most likely just coincidence and inaccurate recollection combined with the occasional 'miraculous' recovery due to our actual medical knowledge in many situation not actually being as good as we imagine?  My sister's mother in law was 'at deaths door' and 'won't last the night' but wasn't and did and is still going strong a year later. There was no intense praying going on there.

A statistically significant number of scientifically monitored and verified incidences of statistically very unlikely events relating only to incidents of specific prayers could be evidence for God - anecdotes and personal experiences/beliefs aren't.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1922 on: July 04, 2015, 07:48:12 AM »
Yes, you can often find a rational explanation for an apparently miraculous healing, but what often happens is that the healing coincides with a prayer in a way which is just too difficult to pass off as a coincidence.


Eerm, that is what we would expect from a placebo effect.

Alan you show your selection bias and confirmation bais over and again, in highlighting anecotes that might bolster your particular beliefs but you ignore 'miracles' from other faith contexts.

If you really wanted to witness to the truth you would learn to discipline yourself against being so transparently selective. There have been two major studies of the healing properties of prayer under controlled conditions; they found, at most generous, some element of placebo effect at work. This is why, if you visit Lourdes for instance, you might find crutches left behind by people who have found the self belief to rid themselves of a limp, but we don't see amputees coming away with suddenly regrown limbs or any other such truly miraculous healing.  It's all in the mind.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 07:52:17 AM by torridon »

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1923 on: July 04, 2015, 08:22:48 AM »
People who think the deity answers prayers positively from time to time, should ask themselves why it chooses to ignore other prayers from people also in great need of a positive outcome?

Now one waits for the excuses as to why the deity doesn't help all who are in need! ::)

Gonnagle

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1924 on: July 04, 2015, 08:28:37 AM »
Dear Forum,

Good morning  :P

Gonnagle.
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