Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3869886 times)

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1950 on: July 05, 2015, 09:38:10 AM »
It's rich you criticising 2,000-year-old thought:  it's more than you are capable of, still dealing in "fairy" and "magic" language!
People who believe in an entity they can't define doing things they don't understand by means they can't explain are dealing in magic, are they not?

But the amount of healing accounted to God would suggest you can write the possibility of God existing off... Arrrh wait a minute... you are not interested in all the facts... You have selective issues about truth when it comes to proving if God exists... You ignore all the possibilities which suggest he does exist.. sticking fingers in ears and closing eyes just in case you may have to consider then and prove yourself wrong... :D

Sassy

Where do you get this idea from, that atheists try not to find this God you're always on about?  If we thought there was the remotest chance that somewhere up above - only he knows where - lurks an all powerful entity that doesn't like being disbelieved and tortures unbelievers for all eternity, there isn't one of us who wouldn't be shaking in our boots in case we were for the high jump! 

Did you read the posts on the this forum and others by atheists?
In truth what other answers could there be?
Have you got some? What keeps you from fearing God?
Many atheists have said that even if God could be proved it would make no difference to them or how they live their lives.
As with everything there is the odd exceptions. But as they only have to obey Christ to find the truth, surely the fact they do not, shows they do not want God to be real as in admitting and finding out if he is.. Some love the darkness too much.  If only they could see they would be happier in the light... :(

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We do not search for God in the same way you do not search for the wicked Fairy Queen!


We know the wicked fairy queens were made up but cannot be found throughout the world and in remotest areas, as the belief in God with man can.  So no comparison and no instructions how to find those fairy queens as they don't exist. There is a way to find God but no one goes there unless they sincerely want to find him and do.

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Do you stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes in case you're proved wrong about her?  Of course you don't because you think she, like you, is away with the fairies!

Irrelevant, nothing in common with God and no one needs to pretend or avoid belief, when it doesn't exist. But God, he does exist but the contention is you cannot find him because your thinking is clearly all wrong. No one with understanding of God and religion would compare the belief to a wicked fairy queen.

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We also look on the book that you repeatedly quote to us in great big capitals, in the same way you look on the big book of Spiderman, because we see it as just as much fiction!

No comparison... Spiderman is a story... The bible is a way of life and pathway to God... Till you can tell the difference then you are blind and your mind dead for all intents and purposes. We see how your error. The real problem is you cannot identify it for yourself.
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Please try arguing from a reality point of view instead of the fantasy POV you've got in the habit of doing.

You are the one arguing from the fantasy point of view comparing Spiderman to God.

Clearly Spiderman the work of one man about a fictional character.
Known to be just that. The bible the writings of many men all knowing the same person and inspired by one Spirit. Yet all alarmingly knowing and representing the same...

Nah! Your wishful thinking and transfer of your own fictional beliefs are clearly refuted in that we can see your error, and know the difference between manmade fiction by one man in comparison to the truth of many through one Spirit about one God.

Gods words come to pass... I never seen Spiderman being real anywhere outside the fiction you create...
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1951 on: July 05, 2015, 09:42:56 AM »
Alan Burns

You are wrong.

It is just coincidence and remembering the hits and ignoring the misses.

Really trivial stuff

There isn't hit and misses...
Some believers do die... they die because they would rather be with the Lord than here on earth and watch men die because of ignorance...

You cannot help yourselves when it comes to evidence... You don't want it to be true... thought it isn't fine. It is your freewill to choose.

But people are healed and it goes on. Because they believe Gods words not mans...
Think on... they believe Gods words NOT mans...
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Maeght

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1952 on: July 05, 2015, 09:50:41 AM »
Sassy, as I posted in rely 1767 - Anyone can account anything to God but demonstrating divine intervention as a fact rather than belief is another thing. Any examples of where this has been shown?

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1953 on: July 05, 2015, 10:55:05 AM »

A chain of reasoning is only as strong as its weakest link.  Introduce anything supernatural and the entire chain of reasoning is rendered meaningless. Gods, magic pixies, supernatural powers, they are all the same, they are an insult to good reasoning, destroying any logic in any sentence in which they are used.
That's rubbish. You are equating atheism and naturalism with Good reasoning and logic. What is your warrant for that?

Supernaturalism is the avoidance of good reasoning and logic.

I have asked for your warrant on this and still it remains a mere assertion.

That's because I see it as a matter of definition.  Evidence doesn't come into it. Supernatural is not amenable to reason by definition.
So naturalism is by definition reasonable.........without the need or possibility of explanation?

Yes, that's how I would see it.  Anything we can detect, observe, measure, analyse, model, these are the constituents of what you would call 'natural'. I personally don't see any reason to suppose that there is other 'stuff' out there beyond what is amenable to investigation, but others maybe do and they call that stuff 'supernatural' but by its own definition it isn't amenable to reason or analysis.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1954 on: July 05, 2015, 11:13:36 AM »

A chain of reasoning is only as strong as its weakest link.  Introduce anything supernatural and the entire chain of reasoning is rendered meaningless. Gods, magic pixies, supernatural powers, they are all the same, they are an insult to good reasoning, destroying any logic in any sentence in which they are used.
That's rubbish. You are equating atheism and naturalism with Good reasoning and logic. What is your warrant for that?

Supernaturalism is the avoidance of good reasoning and logic.

I have asked for your warrant on this and still it remains a mere assertion.

That's because I see it as a matter of definition.  Evidence doesn't come into it. Supernatural is not amenable to reason by definition.
So naturalism is by definition reasonable.........without the need or possibility of explanation?

Yes, that's how I would see it.  Anything we can detect, observe, measure, analyse, model, these are the constituents of what you would call 'natural'. I personally don't see any reason to suppose that there is other 'stuff' out there beyond what is amenable to investigation, but others maybe do and they call that stuff 'supernatural' but by its own definition it isn't amenable to reason or analysis.
So you are saying you don't have to justify but merely assert.
Also I think you mistakenly and exhaustively equate science with logic.

I think your own assertions are not amenable to reason and analysis since you are specially pleading them. Under your own terms your own assertions are therefore unreasonable.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1955 on: July 05, 2015, 11:46:56 AM »
Alan Burns

You are wrong.

It is just coincidence and remembering the hits and ignoring the misses.

Really trivial stuff

There isn't hit and misses...
Some believers do die... they die because they would rather be with the Lord than here on earth and watch men die because of ignorance...

You cannot help yourselves when it comes to evidence... You don't want it to be true... thought it isn't fine. It is your freewill to choose.

But people are healed and it goes on. Because they believe Gods words not mans...
Think on... they believe Gods words NOT mans...

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE, which stands up to scrutiny! ::)

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1956 on: July 05, 2015, 11:53:20 AM »
Alan Burns

You are wrong.

It is just coincidence and remembering the hits and ignoring the misses.

Really trivial stuff

There isn't hit and misses...
Some believers do die... they die because they would rather be with the Lord than here on earth and watch men die because of ignorance...

You cannot help yourselves when it comes to evidence... You don't want it to be true... thought it isn't fine. It is your freewill to choose.

But people are healed and it goes on. Because they believe Gods words not mans...
Think on... they believe Gods words NOT mans...

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE, which stands up to scrutiny! ::)
Can you give us an example....or are you merely adding words to your exhalations?

Alien

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1957 on: July 05, 2015, 10:17:03 PM »
Dear Torridon,

I have been waiting two days to post the 2000th post, thank you >:( >:(

Sad, yes, a bit like this thread. :(

Gonnagle.
Get a moderator to delete one and you will be OK. :)
Apparently 99.9975% atheist because I believe in one out of 4000 believed in (an atheist on Facebook). Yes, check the maths as well.

Alien

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1958 on: July 05, 2015, 10:18:31 PM »

As regards prayer, for a number of years the Pope has prayed each Christmas for peace in the Middle East and it has got worse and worse.  In any case, didn't Jesus say 'God already knows your needs before you ask.'

The non-existence of "God" is so glaringly obvious that I marvel at the gullibility of those who still swallow the story.
Ah, so you are a strong atheist, Len, someone who has come to the conclusion that there is no God rather than merely not believing there is a God.
Apparently 99.9975% atheist because I believe in one out of 4000 believed in (an atheist on Facebook). Yes, check the maths as well.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1959 on: July 05, 2015, 10:26:31 PM »
It was good enough for Nietzsche, one of the greatest, most subtle and most powerful intellects this planet has ever seen*, so it's good enough for me.

* In his intellectual "autobiography" Ecce Homo Freddy said - the gist, as I'm quoting from long memory rather than checking the precise translation - that atheism is obvious by instinct rather than merely the end result of a process of intellectual ratiocination.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1960 on: July 05, 2015, 10:53:39 PM »
It was good enough for Nietzsche, one of the greatest, most subtle and most powerful intellects this planet has ever seen*, so it's good enough for me.

* In his intellectual "autobiography" Ecce Homo Freddy said - the gist, as I'm quoting from long memory rather than checking the precise translation - that atheism is obvious by instinct rather than merely the end result of a process of intellectual ratiocination.

Nietzsche didn't "know" any more than anyone else., he just expressed his opinion more succinctly.

Another famous individual once said: "When a distinguished scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right.  When he states that some thing is impossible, he is very probably wrong."
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1961 on: July 05, 2015, 10:55:08 PM »
Er, yes, but that quote is irrelevant to the present discussion.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1962 on: July 05, 2015, 10:57:58 PM »
Er, yes, but that quote is irrelevant to the present discussion.

Belief in the New Testament claims is relevant to the whole of this forum.  That's the only real reason people are on here, to deny the possibility of the NT being true.  It's a most apposite quotation, and every bit as relevant as Fred's
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1963 on: July 05, 2015, 11:01:00 PM »
How is it?

Don't assert; explain.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1964 on: July 05, 2015, 11:11:28 PM »
How is it?

Don't assert; explain.

Because "he" is saying that anything is possible; whereas the atheists here will contend that the Resurrection, for example, is not possible, nor the miracles, or anything that is claimed in the NT.  Because there is no evidence readily available does not mean that the events did not happen, or could not.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

BeRational

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1965 on: July 05, 2015, 11:14:33 PM »
How is it?

Don't assert; explain.

Because "he" is saying that anything is possible; whereas the atheists here will contend that the Resurrection, for example, is not possible, nor the miracles, or anything that is claimed in the NT.  Because there is no evidence readily available does not mean that the events did not happen, or could not.

It could have happened but the only time to believe it did when there is compelling evidence.

Of course evidence has no value to you as you just choose the beliefs you like.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Maeght

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1966 on: July 05, 2015, 11:17:33 PM »
How is it?

Don't assert; explain.

Because "he" is saying that anything is possible; whereas the atheists here will contend that the Resurrection, for example, is not possible, nor the miracles, or anything that is claimed in the NT.  Because there is no evidence readily available does not mean that the events did not happen, or could not.

The resurrection could have happened but I have no belief that it did and see no convincing evidence to suggest it did.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1967 on: July 05, 2015, 11:17:46 PM »
How is it?

Don't assert; explain.

Because "he" is saying that anything is possible; whereas the atheists here will contend that the Resurrection, for example, is not possible, nor the miracles, or anything that is claimed in the NT.  Because there is no evidence readily available does not mean that the events did not happen, or could not.

It could have happened but the only time to believe it did when there is compelling evidence.

Of course evidence has no value to you as you just choose the beliefs you like.

There is evidence:  the testimony of the New Testament.  You may choose not to accept it; but then you are determined not a to accept any kind of evidence  -  you have a closed mind.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

BeRational

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1968 on: July 05, 2015, 11:21:40 PM »
How is it?

Don't assert; explain.

Because "he" is saying that anything is possible; whereas the atheists here will contend that the Resurrection, for example, is not possible, nor the miracles, or anything that is claimed in the NT.  Because there is no evidence readily available does not mean that the events did not happen, or could not.

It could have happened but the only time to believe it did when there is compelling evidence.

Of course evidence has no value to you as you just choose the beliefs you like.

There is evidence:  the testimony of the New Testament.  You may choose not to accept it; but then you are determined not a to accept any kind of evidence  -  you have a closed mind.

You are wrong again.

I am open-minded and my beliefs form around the evidence as I see it.

Do you accept that God may not exist and you have simply made a mistake?
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1969 on: July 05, 2015, 11:25:49 PM »

Because "he" is saying that anything is possible
Where the hell did you get that from?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1970 on: July 05, 2015, 11:43:14 PM »

Because "he" is saying that anything is possible
Where the hell did you get that from?

Do you mean the quotation?
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1971 on: July 05, 2015, 11:50:09 PM »
Yes.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1972 on: July 05, 2015, 11:51:33 PM »
Yes.

It is from the late Arthur C. Clarke.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1973 on: July 06, 2015, 12:02:24 AM »
Yes, I know - Clarke's First Law.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 12:04:08 AM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #1974 on: July 06, 2015, 12:04:39 AM »
Yes, I know.


So what did you mean by, "Where the hell did you get that from?"
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."