Searching for GOD...

[ekim]

Alan

Mankind has made many and varied efforts to reach some form of spiritual fulfilment, but most Christians I know will verify that it was God who called them into the knowledge of His presence.

From the outside you can make assumptions and apply whatever labels come to mind,

Your second statement appears to conflict with the first in the sense that from the outside you are making assumptions about 'most Christians I know will verify that it was God' etc.  Also this past statement of yours 'I do not think the human mind is capable of comprehending the true nature of God,' appears to nullify both of the above quotes.  How do you judge the inner experience of others, whether Christian or non Christian, and decide whether it is 'divine presence' or not, rather than some form of self delusion or the result of religious egotism?

1.  My comment about other Christians is based on conversations I have had with many fellow Christians.  When they witness to their faith story there is often a common theme that they felt it was God calling them - they were not actively seeking Him.

2.  Our human mind is not capable of comprehending the full nature of God, but we can comprehend the message given to us through Jesus Christ, who I believe to be God made man.

1.  ... and the same applies to those who endeavour to relate similar experiences when following other faiths.  It is quite likely that they will associate it with the culture they have grown up with.  As the inner experience of the individual is personal to them, I would suggest that it cannot be satisfactorily communicated to others with words.
Here are two attempts:
Love for God is naturally ardent and when it fills a man to overflowing, leads the soul to ecstasy.  Therefore the heart of a man who experiences it cannot contain or bear it, but undergoes an extraordinary change according to its own quality and the quality of the love which fills him. .... St. Isaac of Syria  .... Christian

When the source of immortal joy is opened within us, it flows and saturates every fibre of our being, internal and external, and makes our life at once a waveless peace and ceaseless thrill of ecstasy.  Death, fear and grief have then no significance for us. ....Swami Ramdas .... Hindu
 2.  Your belief is just that but how do you validate it?  There appears to be a teaching by Jesus but there is no necessity to associate it with a claim that he is/was God made man, as far as I can see.

[Alan Burns]

"Christian believers will be considered odd", only because they are Alan.

ippy

So you have just classified over 30% of the world population as odd 

[Rhiannon]

One begins to wonder if Alan is actually jealous of us heathen, and has to keep up his mantra in order to try and convince himself his POV has any credibility!

It is not jealousy but profound sadness that I feel for those who have not discovered God's love.

WHAT LOVE? It doesn't display any in the Bible only hatred, Satan couldn't be any worse!

I disagree.

Agreeing with Harry and Thora on this one (good to see you both, by the way).

[Alan Burns]

Alan

Mankind has made many and varied efforts to reach some form of spiritual fulfilment, but most Christians I know will verify that it was God who called them into the knowledge of His presence.

From the outside you can make assumptions and apply whatever labels come to mind,

Your second statement appears to conflict with the first in the sense that from the outside you are making assumptions about 'most Christians I know will verify that it was God' etc.  Also this past statement of yours 'I do not think the human mind is capable of comprehending the true nature of God,' appears to nullify both of the above quotes.  How do you judge the inner experience of others, whether Christian or non Christian, and decide whether it is 'divine presence' or not, rather than some form of self delusion or the result of religious egotism?

1.  My comment about other Christians is based on conversations I have had with many fellow Christians.  When they witness to their faith story there is often a common theme that they felt it was God calling them - they were not actively seeking Him.

2.  Our human mind is not capable of comprehending the full nature of God, but we can comprehend the message given to us through Jesus Christ, who I believe to be God made man.

1.  ... and the same applies to those who endeavour to relate similar experiences when following other faiths.  It is quite likely that they will associate it with the culture they have grown up with.  As the inner experience of the individual is personal to them, I would suggest that it cannot be satisfactorily communicated to others with words.
Here are two attempts:
Love for God is naturally ardent and when it fills a man to overflowing, leads the soul to ecstasy.  Therefore the heart of a man who experiences it cannot contain or bear it, but undergoes an extraordinary change according to its own quality and the quality of the love which fills him. .... St. Isaac of Syria  .... Christian

When the source of immortal joy is opened within us, it flows and saturates every fibre of our being, internal and external, and makes our life at once a waveless peace and ceaseless thrill of ecstasy.  Death, fear and grief have then no significance for us. ....Swami Ramdas .... Hindu
 2.  Your belief is just that but how do you validate it?  There appears to be a teaching by Jesus but there is no necessity to associate it with a claim that he is/was God made man, as far as I can see.

I can only say that my faith is entirely verified by my two way relationship with God.  He gives me far more than I can ever give Him.  The answers to prayer are literally too numerous to count.  I can look back on my life and honestly say that every major event in my life has been a profound answer to prayer going beyond all my expectations - my home, my education, my career, my wife, my children, my friends - but most of all my faith. 

[BashfulAnthony]

One begins to wonder if Alan is actually jealous of us heathen, and has to keep up his mantra in order to try and convince himself his POV has any credibility!

It is not jealousy but profound sadness that I feel for those who have not discovered God's love.

WHAT LOVE? It doesn't display any in the Bible only hatred, Satan couldn't be any worse!

The usual trite, untrue, idiot remark!

[ippy]

"Christian believers will be considered odd", only because they are Alan.

ippy

So you have just classified over 30% of the world population as odd 

Yes?

ippy

[ippy]

Alan

Mankind has made many and varied efforts to reach some form of spiritual fulfilment, but most Christians I know will verify that it was God who called them into the knowledge of His presence.

From the outside you can make assumptions and apply whatever labels come to mind,

Your second statement appears to conflict with the first in the sense that from the outside you are making assumptions about 'most Christians I know will verify that it was God' etc.  Also this past statement of yours 'I do not think the human mind is capable of comprehending the true nature of God,' appears to nullify both of the above quotes.  How do you judge the inner experience of others, whether Christian or non Christian, and decide whether it is 'divine presence' or not, rather than some form of self delusion or the result of religious egotism?

1.  My comment about other Christians is based on conversations I have had with many fellow Christians.  When they witness to their faith story there is often a common theme that they felt it was God calling them - they were not actively seeking Him.

2.  Our human mind is not capable of comprehending the full nature of God, but we can comprehend the message given to us through Jesus Christ, who I believe to be God made man.

1.  ... and the same applies to those who endeavour to relate similar experiences when following other faiths.  It is quite likely that they will associate it with the culture they have grown up with.  As the inner experience of the individual is personal to them, I would suggest that it cannot be satisfactorily communicated to others with words.
Here are two attempts:
Love for God is naturally ardent and when it fills a man to overflowing, leads the soul to ecstasy.  Therefore the heart of a man who experiences it cannot contain or bear it, but undergoes an extraordinary change according to its own quality and the quality of the love which fills him. .... St. Isaac of Syria  .... Christian

When the source of immortal joy is opened within us, it flows and saturates every fibre of our being, internal and external, and makes our life at once a waveless peace and ceaseless thrill of ecstasy.  Death, fear and grief have then no significance for us. ....Swami Ramdas .... Hindu
 2.  Your belief is just that but how do you validate it?  There appears to be a teaching by Jesus but there is no necessity to associate it with a claim that he is/was God made man, as far as I can see.

I can only say that my faith is entirely verified by my two way relationship with God.  He gives me far more than I can ever give Him.  The answers to prayer are literally too numerous to count.  I can look back on my life and honestly say that every major event in my life has been a profound answer to prayer going beyond all my expectations - my home, my education, my career, my wife, my children, my friends - but most of all my faith.

It's a wonderfull thing the imagination.

Ippy.

[Shaker]

"Christian believers will be considered odd", only because they are Alan.

ippy

So you have just classified over 30% of the world population as odd 

Bloody Nora. You can't get out much - I'd put it a damned sight higher than that by a very long way indeed.

[Leonard James]

I can look back on my life and honestly say that every major event in my life has been a profound answer to prayer going beyond all my expectations - my home, my education, my career, my wife, my children, my friends - but most of all my faith.

If the above is true, I'm beginning to get the idea that for some reason you didn't expect very much from life, you didn't have the normal hopes and dreams for the future that most youngsters have ... no doubt psychology has a name for such a condition.

So when things turned out to be normal for you, (that life is sometimes good to us and sometimes bad), you assumed the good parts were the result of prayers, and not the even-handed dealings of fate.

Would you say that is true?

[jjohnjil]

I can look back on my life and honestly say that every major event in my life has been a profound answer to prayer going beyond all my expectations - my home, my education, my career, my wife, my children, my friends - but most of all my faith.

If the above is true, I'm beginning to get the idea that for some reason you didn't expect very much from life, you didn't have the normal hopes and dreams for the future that most youngsters have ... no doubt psychology has a name for such a condition.

So when things turned out to be normal for you, (that life is sometimes good to us and sometimes bad), you assumed the good parts were the result of prayers, and not than the even-handed dealings of fate.

Would you say that is true?

Ol' Satan's responsible for all the nasty stuff, Len, you should know that by now!

[torridon]

Alan

Mankind has made many and varied efforts to reach some form of spiritual fulfilment, but most Christians I know will verify that it was God who called them into the knowledge of His presence.

From the outside you can make assumptions and apply whatever labels come to mind,

Your second statement appears to conflict with the first in the sense that from the outside you are making assumptions about 'most Christians I know will verify that it was God' etc.  Also this past statement of yours 'I do not think the human mind is capable of comprehending the true nature of God,' appears to nullify both of the above quotes.  How do you judge the inner experience of others, whether Christian or non Christian, and decide whether it is 'divine presence' or not, rather than some form of self delusion or the result of religious egotism?

My comment about other Christians is based on conversations I have had with many fellow Christians.  When they witness to their faith story there is often a common theme that they felt it was God calling them - they were not actively seeking Him.

Our human mind is not capable of comprehending the full nature of God, but we can comprehend the message given to us through Jesus Christ, who I believe to be God made man.

You are being selective though, in paying little attention to the witness from other, contradictory faiths. A deeper understander would want to take into account the full diversity of human experience, not just those similar to you.

[torridon]

I can only say that my faith is entirely verified by my two way relationship with God.  He gives me far more than I can ever give Him.  The answers to prayer are literally too numerous to count.  I can look back on my life and honestly say that every major event in my life has been a profound answer to prayer going beyond all my expectations - my home, my education, my career, my wife, my children, my friends - but most of all my faith.

That is probably because you are in the habit of interpreting events in your life in the light of your faith. The alternative explanation, that you really do have the ear of some invisible cosmic being with supernatural powers who has been routinely intervening in the natural order to do you small favours is the rationale of a fantasist. I mean, if that were anywhere near to being true, you would be world famous by now, scientists would be queing up to test the powers you claim to have on tap, journalists would be camped outside your door hoping for a scoop. You would be leveraging some of that awesome power to do some proper good in the world.  None of that is happening though, is it ?

[Leonard James]

Ol' Satan's responsible for all the nasty stuff, Len, you should know that by now!

OIC! 

So "chance" is nothing of the kind ... it is a matter of who wins, "God" or "Satan".

What a load of old bull it all is! 

[ekim]

Alan

Mankind has made many and varied efforts to reach some form of spiritual fulfilment, but most Christians I know will verify that it was God who called them into the knowledge of His presence.

From the outside you can make assumptions and apply whatever labels come to mind,

Your second statement appears to conflict with the first in the sense that from the outside you are making assumptions about 'most Christians I know will verify that it was God' etc.  Also this past statement of yours 'I do not think the human mind is capable of comprehending the true nature of God,' appears to nullify both of the above quotes.  How do you judge the inner experience of others, whether Christian or non Christian, and decide whether it is 'divine presence' or not, rather than some form of self delusion or the result of religious egotism?

1.  My comment about other Christians is based on conversations I have had with many fellow Christians.  When they witness to their faith story there is often a common theme that they felt it was God calling them - they were not actively seeking Him.

2.  Our human mind is not capable of comprehending the full nature of God, but we can comprehend the message given to us through Jesus Christ, who I believe to be God made man.

1.  ... and the same applies to those who endeavour to relate similar experiences when following other faiths.  It is quite likely that they will associate it with the culture they have grown up with.  As the inner experience of the individual is personal to them, I would suggest that it cannot be satisfactorily communicated to others with words.
Here are two attempts:
Love for God is naturally ardent and when it fills a man to overflowing, leads the soul to ecstasy.  Therefore the heart of a man who experiences it cannot contain or bear it, but undergoes an extraordinary change according to its own quality and the quality of the love which fills him. .... St. Isaac of Syria  .... Christian

When the source of immortal joy is opened within us, it flows and saturates every fibre of our being, internal and external, and makes our life at once a waveless peace and ceaseless thrill of ecstasy.  Death, fear and grief have then no significance for us. ....Swami Ramdas .... Hindu
 2.  Your belief is just that but how do you validate it?  There appears to be a teaching by Jesus but there is no necessity to associate it with a claim that he is/was God made man, as far as I can see.

I can only say that my faith is entirely verified by my two way relationship with God.  He gives me far more than I can ever give Him.  The answers to prayer are literally too numerous to count.  I can look back on my life and honestly say that every major event in my life has been a profound answer to prayer going beyond all my expectations - my home, my education, my career, my wife, my children, my friends - but most of all my faith.

Why does the deity answer your prayers, presumably positively, when it doesn't answer others of equal merit? Alan, the more you post the more in cloud cuckoo land you appear to be! 

Didn't Jesus say that he had come as a sword to separate family attachments?  Perhaps, Alan, it is those who have lost their home, career, wife, children, friends etc and still retain their faith, who would be in a stronger position to validate their claim.

[Rhiannon]

Indeed. Alan seems to make his God very small. He can't avert war or natural disaster but he'll bring his followers their dream job if they ask nicely.

[wigginhall]

Alan has to work backwards.  He looks at stuff that has happened, and says, God brought that.  This is actually foolproof, and meaningless.   Then bad stuff either gets overlooked or maybe it's a challenge to humans, or is for soul-building.   Well, more meaningless, because it can't be falsified.   (Also, as I said before, intellectual suicide).

[floo]

Indeed. Alan seems to make his God very small. He can't avert war or natural disaster but he'll bring his followers their dream job if they ask nicely.

Or a nice day for the church BBQ!

[floo]

Alan has to work backwards.  He looks at stuff that has happened, and says, God brought that.  This is actually foolproof, and meaningless.   Then bad stuff either gets overlooked or maybe it's a challenge to humans, or is for soul-building.   Well, more meaningless, because it can't be falsified.   (Also, as I said before, intellectual suicide).

The good stuff is down to the deity, the bad is down to naughty old Satan.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Alan has to work backwards.  He looks at stuff that has happened, and says, God brought that.  This is actually foolproof, and meaningless.   Then bad stuff either gets overlooked or maybe it's a challenge to humans, or is for soul-building.   Well, more meaningless, because it can't be falsified.   (Also, as I said before, intellectual suicide).

Don't you sense a difference between natural disaster and deliberate human engineered disaster or neglect?

[ippy]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy 

[BashfulAnthony]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

Wizards, fairies. magic friends in the sky, etc.  You should have stopped reading those comic books by now.

[ippy]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

Wizards, fairies. magic friends in the sky, etc.  You should have stopped reading those comic books by now.

That seems to be the difference between us B A, I enjoy comics for what they are I don't think of them as manuals.

ippy

[BashfulAnthony]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

Wizards, fairies. magic friends in the sky, etc.  You should have stopped reading those comic books by now.

That seems to be the difference between us B A, I enjoy comics for what they are I don't think of them as manuals.

ippy

So you do read them  -  I note this thread and message number!    I don't read them!!

[ippy]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

Wizards, fairies. magic friends in the sky, etc.  You should have stopped reading those comic books by now.

That seems to be the difference between us B A, I enjoy comics for what they are I don't think of them as manuals.

ippy

So you do read them  -  I note this thread and message number!    I don't read them!!

10 out of 10 for imagination B A, I don't try to summon up sky fairies or think I'm on some kind of point scoring quest either.

You enjoy yourself B A.

ippy   

[Rhiannon]

Alan has to work backwards.  He looks at stuff that has happened, and says, God brought that.  This is actually foolproof, and meaningless.   Then bad stuff either gets overlooked or maybe it's a challenge to humans, or is for soul-building.   Well, more meaningless, because it can't be falsified.   (Also, as I said before, intellectual suicide).

Don't you sense a difference between natural disaster and deliberate human engineered disaster or neglect?

So God can't prevent war but can earthquakes?