Searching for GOD...

[BashfulAnthony]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

Wizards, fairies. magic friends in the sky, etc.  You should have stopped reading those comic books by now.

That seems to be the difference between us B A, I enjoy comics for what they are I don't think of them as manuals.

ippy

So you do read them  -  I note this thread and message number!    I don't read them!!

10 out of 10 for imagination B A, I don't try to summon up sky fairies or think I'm on some kind of point scoring quest either.

You enjoy yourself B A.

ippy

Neither do I.  Enjoy your comics.

[floo]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

Wizards, fairies. magic friends in the sky, etc.  You should have stopped reading those comic books by now.

That seems to be the difference between us B A, I enjoy comics for what they are I don't think of them as manuals.

ippy

I suppose the Bible could be considered a dark comic book. Most of the tales therein are no more credible than those in other comic books!

[BashfulAnthony]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

Wizards, fairies. magic friends in the sky, etc.  You should have stopped reading those comic books by now.

That seems to be the difference between us B A, I enjoy comics for what they are I don't think of them as manuals.

ippy

I suppose the Bible could be considered a dark comic book. Most of the tales therein are no more credible than those in other comic books!

Oh dear, Floo, so that's why you don't understand any of it!   

[wigginhall]

Alan has to work backwards.  He looks at stuff that has happened, and says, God brought that.  This is actually foolproof, and meaningless.   Then bad stuff either gets overlooked or maybe it's a challenge to humans, or is for soul-building.   Well, more meaningless, because it can't be falsified.   (Also, as I said before, intellectual suicide).

Don't you sense a difference between natural disaster and deliberate human engineered disaster or neglect?

Well, OK, now tell me how that relates to God. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Alan has to work backwards.  He looks at stuff that has happened, and says, God brought that.  This is actually foolproof, and meaningless.   Then bad stuff either gets overlooked or maybe it's a challenge to humans, or is for soul-building.   Well, more meaningless, because it can't be falsified.   (Also, as I said before, intellectual suicide).

Don't you sense a difference between natural disaster and deliberate human engineered disaster or neglect?

Well, OK, now tell me how that relates to God.

Sensing a difference between natural disaster and deliberate man made disaster shows a moral sense.
Accidents are adverse situations where we are exposed to the side effects of impersonal natural forces (created by God to the theist).
Here is the problem for the atheist. If she goes for all adversity is equally evil without differentiation she has forfeited a moral sense of herself. If she says that human evil is qualitatively different then she edges close to the moral argument for God.

[Alan Burns]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

I suspect that the exposed frauds you speak of come from a very biased viewpiont, such as: "I know that God does not exist, so it can't have happened like that".  I can assure you that I am not attempting to relate any fraudulent claims on this forum.

[Sassy]

  Organic entities get enhanced by divine intervention.

No they don't! They get 'enhanced' by genetic copying errors which better adapt them to the environment they find themselves in.

Don't you know how evolution works?

No he doesn't, and he's not likely to find out either, Len.

It's desperately sad when people flatly refuse to recognise scientific facts.

Whilst Shaker and yourself, Leonard,
Harp on about evolution it is perfectly clear that neither has a clue how it works.
It doesn't work because it is a theory. A theory which still remains unproven. And neither of you could scientifically explain all the technical details involved nor can you understand it as scientist think it...

TRUTH... evolution is a load of rubbish in the face it has absolutely NO ANSWER to how the first life came into existence... Yeah we all flippin know evolution isn't about that but the truth is the bloody Oak tree evolution is flippin useless if you ain't got the answer to where the first acorn came from... if it was an acorn.....

[Sassy]

Do not think because they say the law of gravity it is more than it is. It is a THEORY, one which like ALL other theories at the moment, is incomplete and not 100% accurate.

It cannot account for quantum effects.

I wonder if Alan realises that evolution is better understood by a very long way indeed than gravity, and if not, should I tell him?

No you might shake his faith in himself. But on the other hand, he believes himself to be so right that even if there was verifiable proof no deity/afterlife exists, he would still believe he is right!

DA DA DAH DA DA DAH...

Go away and find an actual argument instead of an untrue and unfounded allegation...

[Sassy]

Why does the deity answer your prayers, presumably positively, when it doesn't answer others of equal merit? Alan, the more you post the more in cloud cuckoo land you appear to be! 

Well, you would know better about cloud cuckoo land your posts suggest you spend all your time there...

[Sassy]

Alan

Mankind has made many and varied efforts to reach some form of spiritual fulfilment, but most Christians I know will verify that it was God who called them into the knowledge of His presence.

From the outside you can make assumptions and apply whatever labels come to mind,

Your second statement appears to conflict with the first in the sense that from the outside you are making assumptions about 'most Christians I know will verify that it was God' etc.  Also this past statement of yours 'I do not think the human mind is capable of comprehending the true nature of God,' appears to nullify both of the above quotes.  How do you judge the inner experience of others, whether Christian or non Christian, and decide whether it is 'divine presence' or not, rather than some form of self delusion or the result of religious egotism?

1.  My comment about other Christians is based on conversations I have had with many fellow Christians.  When they witness to their faith story there is often a common theme that they felt it was God calling them - they were not actively seeking Him.

2.  Our human mind is not capable of comprehending the full nature of God, but we can comprehend the message given to us through Jesus Christ, who I believe to be God made man.

1.  ... and the same applies to those who endeavour to relate similar experiences when following other faiths.  It is quite likely that they will associate it with the culture they have grown up with.  As the inner experience of the individual is personal to them, I would suggest that it cannot be satisfactorily communicated to others with words.
Here are two attempts:
Love for God is naturally ardent and when it fills a man to overflowing, leads the soul to ecstasy.  Therefore the heart of a man who experiences it cannot contain or bear it, but undergoes an extraordinary change according to its own quality and the quality of the love which fills him. .... St. Isaac of Syria  .... Christian

When the source of immortal joy is opened within us, it flows and saturates every fibre of our being, internal and external, and makes our life at once a waveless peace and ceaseless thrill of ecstasy.  Death, fear and grief have then no significance for us. ....Swami Ramdas .... Hindu
 2.  Your belief is just that but how do you validate it?  There appears to be a teaching by Jesus but there is no necessity to associate it with a claim that he is/was God made man, as far as I can see.

I can only say that my faith is entirely verified by my two way relationship with God.  He gives me far more than I can ever give Him.  The answers to prayer are literally too numerous to count.  I can look back on my life and honestly say that every major event in my life has been a profound answer to prayer going beyond all my expectations - my home, my education, my career, my wife, my children, my friends - but most of all my faith.

Why does the deity answer your prayers, presumably positively, when it doesn't answer others of equal merit? Alan, the more you post the more in cloud cuckoo land you appear to be! 

Didn't Jesus say that he had come as a sword to separate family attachments?  Perhaps, Alan, it is those who have lost their home, career, wife, children, friends etc and still retain their faith, who would be in a stronger position to validate their claim.

If you had understood the bible you would know that the truth divides... That the truth Christ brought would cause people to separate as it does the believers from the none believers here.

The hope Christ has brought supports the believer when all things go wrong... Until you have tasted that which Christ gives you will make such statements as above. It shows you are far away from truth.

[Sassy]

Indeed. Alan seems to make his God very small. He can't avert war or natural disaster but he'll bring his followers their dream job if they ask nicely.

Yet in reality you show the true ignorance of the truth that war exists because of man.
How do you propose that God should avert the wars of man?
God gives good things... to men who are not good... but the evil man does is like your own evil... your own doing and your own responsibility.

[Sassy]

Alan has to work backwards.  He looks at stuff that has happened, and says, God brought that.  This is actually foolproof, and meaningless.   Then bad stuff either gets overlooked or maybe it's a challenge to humans, or is for soul-building.   Well, more meaningless, because it can't be falsified.   (Also, as I said before, intellectual suicide).

Intellectual ignorance of God and the world is not a reason to accuse others falsely of intellectual suicide.

[Sassy]

Alan has to work backwards.  He looks at stuff that has happened, and says, God brought that.  This is actually foolproof, and meaningless.   Then bad stuff either gets overlooked or maybe it's a challenge to humans, or is for soul-building.   Well, more meaningless, because it can't be falsified.   (Also, as I said before, intellectual suicide).

The good stuff is down to the deity, the bad is down to naughty old Satan.

What is your good stuff down to? What is your bad stuff down to?
Can you stop yourself doing the bad things? How do you feel when you do either?

[Sassy]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

If only you would read the bible...

It is typical of ignorant people to get it sooooo wrong...

[Sassy]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

Wizards, fairies. magic friends in the sky, etc.  You should have stopped reading those comic books by now.

I think he has been away with the fairies....tooo long... Never mind he might start to actually read the bible now,......

[Sassy]

Alan has to work backwards.  He looks at stuff that has happened, and says, God brought that.  This is actually foolproof, and meaningless.   Then bad stuff either gets overlooked or maybe it's a challenge to humans, or is for soul-building.   Well, more meaningless, because it can't be falsified.   (Also, as I said before, intellectual suicide).

Don't you sense a difference between natural disaster and deliberate human engineered disaster or neglect?

So God can't prevent war but can earthquakes?

He could prevent humans from shitting too.He could prevent humans from singing too. He could prevent them from washing and doing all that humans do... But you would soon flippin moan if he did. So if we have earthquakes then it is mans fault for not taking care of the planet... If we have wars it is mans fault because they flipping start them.. For Goodness sake does God have to wipe mans backside for him because he can't and won't admit his own responsibility for what the world is now?

[Sassy]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

Wizards, fairies. magic friends in the sky, etc.  You should have stopped reading those comic books by now.

That seems to be the difference between us B A, I enjoy comics for what they are I don't think of them as manuals.

ippy

I suppose the Bible could be considered a dark comic book. Most of the tales therein are no more credible than those in other comic books!

Says she who doesn't know what the bible says...

[Shaker]

Whilst Shaker and yourself, Leonard,
Harp on about evolution it is perfectly clear that neither has a clue how it works.

Wait for the irony overload of the century - here it comes ... any minute now ... wait for it ... it's a doozy this one ... wait for it ... here it comes ...

It doesn't work because it is a theory.

There we go!

[BeRational]

Whilst Shaker and yourself, Leonard,
Harp on about evolution it is perfectly clear that neither has a clue how it works.

Wait for the irony overload of the century - here it comes ... any minute now ... wait for it ... it's a doozy this one ... wait for it ... here it comes ...

It doesn't work because it is a theory.

There we go!

Wow, just wow!
That needs a special kind of dumb!

[savillerow]

A scientific "theory" is the Rolls Royce Billy Bollocks Gold Plated Robust idea of how things are. Then its tested to utter destruction by all or any scientists. If it stands up to scrutiny by what we know so far of anything it becomes "a bit of a goer" Unless of course it can be disproved. I think you will find thats what a theory is. So when all those religious people forever print "its only a theory" its much much more than that.

[Sassy]

Whilst Shaker and yourself, Leonard,
Harp on about evolution it is perfectly clear that neither has a clue how it works.

Wait for the irony overload of the century - here it comes ... any minute now ... wait for it ... it's a doozy this one ... wait for it ... here it comes ...

It doesn't work because it is a theory.

There we go!

Shaker,

Shut up!

You read something... you copy somethings... but annoyingly you PRETEND to understand and comprehend the things scientist tell you. Emperors new CLOTHES or in your case rags...

We both know you follow an utter ignorant and unexplainable and unprovable belief...
Well the thing is you pretend no one else can see it, thinking like you no one understands it..

Try GOD, he knows exactly why what you believe is basically a mirage of the mind... You pretend to understand something you could not begin to conceive....Well... that is life for you,

[Sassy]

A scientific "theory" is the Rolls Royce Billy Bollocks Gold Plated Robust idea of how things are. Then its tested to utter destruction by all or any scientists. If it stands up to scrutiny by what we know so far of anything it becomes "a bit of a goer" Unless of course it can be disproved. I think you will find thats what a theory is. So when all those religious people forever print "its only a theory" its much much more than that.

Nah! it isn't and that is why YOU and the OTHERS do not bring evidence to prove it..Arguments such as the posts made after mine DO NOT take away from anything I said...Just proves you and the others haven't a clue when it comes to the reality of the scientists and their THEORIES...

[ippy]

Alan it looks to me that during the course of this thread you've been wrapped up posted, delivered and each layer of the wrapping materials used has been removed, now gone just like your naked ideas; as I've said you are now in a very similar position to the Wizard of Oz when he was in the last few minutes of that 1939 film exposed as the fraud behind the curtain.

ippy

Thanks for the post Sass; still can't find any evidence that would support the magical, mysterious and superstitious parts of your manual then?

ippy   

If only you would read the bible...

It is typical of ignorant people to get it sooooo wrong...

Can't find any evidence Sass, so more silence on this subject then?

ippy

[torridon]

Whilst Shaker and yourself, Leonard,
Harp on about evolution it is perfectly clear that neither has a clue how it works.
It doesn't work because it is a theory. A theory which still remains unproven. And neither of you could scientifically explain all the technical details involved nor can you understand it as scientist think it...

TRUTH... evolution is a load of rubbish in the face it has absolutely NO ANSWER to how the first life came into existence... Yeah we all flippin know evolution isn't about that but the truth is the bloody Oak tree evolution is flippin useless if you ain't got the answer to where the first acorn came from... if it was an acorn.....

Maybe you cannot see the value in it Sass, but to anyone with an interest in life, the TofE provides the profoundest of insights into how life works, so much so, that nothing in life sciences makes any sense except in the light of evolution. The fact is that we live in a constantly changing world, and the TofE describes the mechanisms by which life changes and adapts to changing circumstances. There is no doubt much remaining to discover but that doesn't mean that the TofE is 'wrong', it means it is incomplete, and that applies to all areas of knowledge including our understanding of the pathways from geochemistry and biochemistry into biology.  Merely maintaining an attitude of denial will bring us no new insights.

[floo]

A scientific "theory" is the Rolls Royce Billy Bollocks Gold Plated Robust idea of how things are. Then its tested to utter destruction by all or any scientists. If it stands up to scrutiny by what we know so far of anything it becomes "a bit of a goer" Unless of course it can be disproved. I think you will find thats what a theory is. So when all those religious people forever print "its only a theory" its much much more than that.

Nah! it isn't and that is why YOU and the OTHERS do not bring evidence to prove it..Arguments such as the posts made after mine DO NOT take away from anything I said...Just proves you and the others haven't a clue when it comes to the reality of the scientists and their THEORIES...

It is Sass who is clueless about science and religion!