Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3863646 times)

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2350 on: July 13, 2015, 09:09:30 PM »

But it would show how pointless human life is, and our awareness of it.  There is much, much more to life than evolution.

Of course there is. Life is a song we have to sing from birth to death. Some of it is sad, some joyful and some just routine. Whether or not there is any point to life depends entirely on you.

Live the best way you know how, helping your fellow man and not hurting him, and caring for the environment. Anybody who needs more point to his life than that is being self-centred and greedy.

I need chocolate. Is that allowed?

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2351 on: July 13, 2015, 09:11:37 PM »
No chocolate on Sundays.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2352 on: July 13, 2015, 09:18:36 PM »

But it would show how pointless human life is, and our awareness of it.  There is much, much more to life than evolution.

Of course there is. Life is a song we have to sing from birth to death. Some of it is sad, some joyful and some just routine. Whether or not there is any point to life depends entirely on you.

Live the best way you know how, helping your fellow man and not hurting him, and caring for the environment. Anybody who needs more point to his life than that is being self-centred and greedy.

I need chocolate. Is that allowed?

Of course! I have two chocolates (sometimes three) after dinner every evening. Nothing posh, just the supermarket's own brand, but still nice.

As I have often remarked to 'is lordship, nobody eats better than we do!   ;D

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2353 on: July 13, 2015, 09:19:13 PM »
Between 10:00 and 16:00, in any consecutive six-hour period.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2354 on: July 13, 2015, 09:20:24 PM »
The evidence of evolution is all around us, to deny it is about as sensible as a haddock denying the existence of seawater.
But there is no natural explanation for why a naturally driven process of evolution has developed something which far exceeds the functionality of a biological survival machine.  Looking ahead it seems very likely that the capacity for the human race to destroy each other will soon ensure that humans will have been around for just a very short period in the time line for this earth.  And to what purpose?  Will it all have been for nothing?  Just a random blip created by chance?  Who will support Darwin's theory when all the humans are gone?

You need to get the teleology out of your hair to see clearly. Extinctions are natural to evolution just as death is a natural consequence of life. Humans may well go extinct, such an event certainly in no way would invalidate evolutionary theory.
But it would show how pointless human life is, and our awareness of it.  There is much, much more to life than evolution.

Was there a 'point' to the ant's life that you trod on yesterday ? If there is an asteroid out there with our name on it, it ain't going to change course because of the narcissistic pontificating of the currently dominant species of ape.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2355 on: July 13, 2015, 09:23:29 PM »
I know this might sound weird but I find something obscurely comforting about the earth continuing, evolution continuing once we're gone. It takes the heat out of my own self-importance.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2356 on: July 13, 2015, 09:24:39 PM »
No chocolate on Sundays.

Not even overpriced Celebrations from a corner shop?

Actually they aren't edible. Forget that.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2357 on: July 13, 2015, 09:26:33 PM »
I do not understand this Celebrations not being edible thing. Somebody explain.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2358 on: July 13, 2015, 09:29:52 PM »
They have things like Snickers and Bounty in them.


Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2359 on: July 13, 2015, 09:33:36 PM »
Oh, I know what Celebrations are.

It's just the idea of them not being edible I don't get.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2360 on: July 13, 2015, 09:34:31 PM »
That was me explaining why they aren't edible.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2361 on: July 13, 2015, 09:34:53 PM »
I see evening is upon us

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2362 on: July 13, 2015, 09:39:02 PM »
The quality of debate on here always improves after nine. For some reason I post like I've had half a bottle of rjoca even though I (usually) haven't.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2363 on: July 13, 2015, 09:40:40 PM »
I see evening is upon us

Yus! I'm orf to bed ... I have to get my gardening work done before sun-up, which means getting up around six.

Nite all!

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2364 on: July 13, 2015, 09:41:47 PM »
Night night Len.  :)


Enki

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2365 on: July 13, 2015, 09:53:57 PM »
The evidence of evolution is all around us, to deny it is about as sensible as a haddock denying the existence of seawater.
But there is no natural explanation for why a naturally driven process of evolution has developed something which far exceeds the functionality of a biological survival machine.  Looking ahead it seems very likely that the capacity for the human race to destroy each other will soon ensure that humans will have been around for just a very short period in the time line for this earth.  And to what purpose?  Will it all have been for nothing?  Just a random blip created by chance?  Who will support Darwin's theory when all the humans are gone?

You need to get the teleology out of your hair to see clearly. Extinctions are natural to evolution just as death is a natural consequence of life. Humans may well go extinct, such an event certainly in no way would invalidate evolutionary theory.
But it would show how pointless human life is, and our awareness of it.  There is much, much more to life than evolution.

But I don't consider my own life to be pointless, Alan. I have, amongst the trials and stresses that have accompanied my life, enjoyed countless moments of fulfillment and enjoyment, just like many others. To consider that my life will one day end in oblivion does not mean that my life has no meaning. Satisfaction comes from the meaning and focus that I am capable of imprinting on it. I know that you need some outside agency to create some sort of fulfilment in your life, but that doesn't mean that others have to be like you. I quite accept that for you, your faith is a bedrock which would make you feel desolate if it was taken away but why can't you accept that others may find their own sense of meaning in so many different ways.

All sorts of experiences give my life meaning. Obviously the friendship and love that is felt in the various relationships I have is one important factor. But there are many others, too.

Consider, for instance, my fascination with the natural world, and all that I have absorbed from it. My focus has been on birdwatching, and, because of this, I have been privileged to visit many countries and have probably seen about a third of the world's known species. I have seen at first hand, delighted in and learnt from so many experiences associated with this. I won't bore you with the details as my experiences are really only pertinent to me, and I quite accept that they may mean very little to another person.

Or consider my working life when I was a teacher, and, through my enthusiasm and knowledge, tried to convey some of that to my pupils, whilst encouraging their challenging and enquiring minds. The fact that I helped awaken an interest in Maths or English in some of those pupils, for instance, I found, as with many teachers, a rewarding and meaningful experience.

Or consider the present where my wife and I run two dance sessions a week(modern ballroom and modern sequence) for the older generation. The obvious enjoyment this gives to others as well as ourselves creates its own meaning, too.

And, for me, none of the meaning or satisfaction that I feel, has any association with any god at all. It comes from my own mind, and my best explanation of it comes from the idea of evolution through natural selection.

People like you,(and I have met a fair number), find it so difficult to understand and appreciate that other paths though life are available which are just as valid for each individual as the one that you follow.
Sometimes I wish my first word was 'quote,' so that on my death bed, my last words could be 'end quote.'
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Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2366 on: July 13, 2015, 10:03:22 PM »
Last week we were in Norfolk and we walked along the shore with a grey seal bobbing along in the sea not twenty feet from us. Later we got caught in a rainstorm and as we headed back along the sea wall my son found a common lizard. I'd never seen a lizard in the UK before.

Before we came home the tide got up with breakers bigger than Ive ever seen on the east coast. I managed to spend some quiet time watching the surf and contemplating on the waters that gave us all life. I won't elaborate on that because, as Enki says, it is personal to me, but also I'm mindful of the inappropriateness of describing a pagan spiritual thing on this topic.

Moment, by moment, life gives us meaning - my dog's soft head in my lap, sweet roses in a jug, my child's hand in mine. I don't know if there is an afterlife but if there isn't I've been blessed with riches far beyond measure in this one. I won't complain.

wigginhall

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2367 on: July 13, 2015, 10:06:28 PM »
Nice post, enki.  It seems so arrogant of some theists to start telling others that their life is pointless.   It's also ridiculous, as if they could see into someone else's life and judge it.   And once again, the narcissism is breathtaking - 'because you don't have my view of God and so on, therefore I pronounce that your life is pointless'.   Get real and stop judging others.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Enki

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2368 on: July 13, 2015, 10:10:49 PM »
Cheers, Wiggs.

Wrong thread, I know, but that reminded me of the first time I saw natterjack toads on Blakeney Point, Rhi.  Helluva walk but I can remember it as though it was yesterday. :)
Sometimes I wish my first word was 'quote,' so that on my death bed, my last words could be 'end quote.'
Steven Wright

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2369 on: July 13, 2015, 10:22:49 PM »
Enki and Rhiannon, nice posts, thanks  ;)

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2370 on: July 13, 2015, 11:06:23 PM »

But it would show how pointless human life is, and our awareness of it.  There is much, much more to life than evolution.

Of course there is. Life is a song we have to sing from birth to death. Some of it is sad, some joyful and some just routine. Whether or not there is any point to life depends entirely on you.

Live the best way you know how, helping your fellow man and not hurting him, and caring for the environment. Anybody who needs more point to his life than that is being self-centred and greedy.
Len, You obviously have a capacity to enjoy life, but what is it inside you that appreciates it?  Is it a few happy atoms, or is it your spiritual soul?
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2371 on: July 14, 2015, 07:02:14 AM »

But it would show how pointless human life is, and our awareness of it.  There is much, much more to life than evolution.

Of course there is. Life is a song we have to sing from birth to death. Some of it is sad, some joyful and some just routine. Whether or not there is any point to life depends entirely on you.

Live the best way you know how, helping your fellow man and not hurting him, and caring for the environment. Anybody who needs more point to his life than that is being self-centred and greedy.
Len, You obviously have a capacity to enjoy life, but what is it inside you that appreciates it?  Is it a few happy atoms, or is it your spiritual soul?
A 'spiritual soul' is a myth.  It is not there. For you, adopting such beliefs perhaps acts as a gratifying framework for understanding the ineffable but it wouldn't work for me because I don't want my understanding cluttered up by spurious beliefs. That might not be so cosy, for sure, but some of us prefer that.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2372 on: July 14, 2015, 07:07:22 AM »
Nice post, enki.  It seems so arrogant of some theists to start telling others that their life is pointless.   It's also ridiculous, as if they could see into someone else's life and judge it.   And once again, the narcissism is breathtaking - 'because you don't have my view of God and so on, therefore I pronounce that your life is pointless'.   Get real and stop judging others.

I don't think it has anything  to do with narcissism.  You always have to put the worst slant on what a theist says, as though you are the fount of all knowledge!
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2373 on: July 14, 2015, 08:32:26 AM »
Nice post, enki.  It seems so arrogant of some theists to start telling others that their life is pointless.   It's also ridiculous, as if they could see into someone else's life and judge it.   And once again, the narcissism is breathtaking - 'because you don't have my view of God and so on, therefore I pronounce that your life is pointless'.   Get real and stop judging others.

I don't think it has anything  to do with narcissism.  You always have to put the worst slant on what a theist says, as though you are the fount of all knowledge!

Be fair B A there is no evidence that could support the magical, mythical or superstition parts of your beliefs, so what are the reasonably acceptable magical, mythical superstition based parts of your beliefs that warrant any special attention?

ippy

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #2374 on: July 14, 2015, 09:44:41 AM »

But it would show how pointless human life is, and our awareness of it.  There is much, much more to life than evolution.

Of course there is. Life is a song we have to sing from birth to death. Some of it is sad, some joyful and some just routine. Whether or not there is any point to life depends entirely on you.

Live the best way you know how, helping your fellow man and not hurting him, and caring for the environment. Anybody who needs more point to his life than that is being self-centred and greedy.
Len, You obviously have a capacity to enjoy life, but what is it inside you that appreciates it?  Is it a few happy atoms, or is it your spiritual soul?

The atoms which deal with human emotions inside the brain!
Depends what you mean by the word "deal".  I can understand the atoms reacting in some way to give signals to other atoms, but how can a group of atoms become an emotion?
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton