Searching for GOD...

[SweetPea]

Dear ippy,

In what way does Alan remotely remind you of the founder of The Science of Righteousness.

I really don't want to offend Alan ( honest ) but he is kind of boring, Nicholas was/is lots of things but never boring.

Gonnagle.

Well, Alan can't be that boring, members continue to answer his posts.

If anyone wants to catch-up with Nick Marks here is his Google+ page:

https://plus.google.com/108751120187989499799/posts

[SusanDoris]

Well, Alan can't be that boring, members continue to answer his posts.

for about a week now, I have been starting to write, and then deleting, a post which says something like:
AAAArrrr gh!!I can't stand it any more!!! Alans suffocatingly, smotheringly fuzzy [posts are just too much!! However, it's sort of compulsive and, fortunately, the effect is counteracted by the clear, down-to-earth common sense of others.

[cyberman]

Alan are you in any way related to Sparky or NM as he referred to himself, he used to post here on this forum?

ippy

No

Strange you sound exactly like he did, almost word for word

Not really,  Alan hasn't mentioned electricity or 'dynamic energy' yet.
Nick would shoehorn them into every second post!

There's no similarity at all. This is just typical Ippy hysteria

[Rhiannon]

We might all think Alan has a fluffy view of his religion, but he sounds quite happy about it.

[ippy]

Alan are you in any way related to Sparky or NM as he referred to himself, he used to post here on this forum?

ippy

No

Strange you sound exactly like he did, almost word for word

Not really,  Alan hasn't mentioned electricity or 'dynamic energy' yet.
Nick would shoehorn them into every second post!

There's no similarity at all. This is just typical Ippy hysteria

Let's face it N M Was a bit on the extreme side of unusual; Allan isn't?

ippy

[cyberman]

Alan are you in any way related to Sparky or NM as he referred to himself, he used to post here on this forum?

ippy

No

Strange you sound exactly like he did, almost word for word

Not really,  Alan hasn't mentioned electricity or 'dynamic energy' yet.
Nick would shoehorn them into every second post!

There's no similarity at all. This is just typical Ippy hysteria

Let's face it N M Was a bit on the extreme side of unusual; Allan isn't?

ippy

Well that's completely subjective. can you give me an example of something which seems similar to you? two things both seeming eccentric to you doesn't mean they resemble each other.

[ippy]

Both dug into their narrow small minded foxholes with their tin hats on regardless of whatever's  thrown at them, no matter how much sense it might make.

Ike and Mike alike.

ippy

I'll give you N M was the more laughable of the pair of them, loved the dynamic energy.

ippy 

[cyberman]

the pair of them

So you have given up your barmy notion that the two are one and the same

[SusanDoris]

I think one important difference might be that, as far as I remember, NM was not involved with teaching children in Sunday Schooland AB is.
I am very strongly against anyone telling children that God - any god or similar - is absolutely true, instead of educating them about how people believe that notion.

[Leonard James]

I think one important difference might be that, as far as I remember, NM was not involved with teaching children in Sunday Schooland AB is.
I am very strongly against anyone telling children that God - any god or similar - is absolutely true, instead of educating them about how people believe that notion.

And that is the most important point of it, and I agree with you, Susan.

[torridon]

The presence of pain and suffering in all our lives is somehow needed to keep things in check, and to purge our self centred desires in order to prepare us to fully experience the joys of heaven.  I firmly believe that God answers all sincere prayers by giving us what we need rather than what we want, and our ultimate need is the ability to experience the joy of our existence in Heaven in God's presence.

I doubt that most suffering derives from self-centredness. People get ill, earthquakes happen, insufficient resources sees people living in deprivation.  It doesn't make sense to me to that a god with a hunky dory place called heaven lined up for select humans has to drag us all through 80 years of shit in order to prepare us for the joy of living in heaven - this scenario implies we would have memory of our earthly life, which implies we would experience the loss of others who weren't there in heaven.  This vision of heaven is not really heavenly.  A better plan all round, would be to cut out the earthly crap altogether and just go straight to heaven, that way god is doing the best by all people without fear, favour, or suffering.

[torridon]

Read the Four Gospels with a open mind, forget the miracles, focus on the man Jesus, his deeds and teaching, it works, billions will testify to this.

Luck! No I think it is a bit more than just luck.

Gonnagle.

You can't forget the miracles if they are there in black and white.  Your exhortation is to become selective, and maybe that does work for you and maybe for billions of others, but it would niggle me.  A great reformer, put to death by his own deeply conservative people, I could buy that.  You could see parallels in other great minds from the ancient world, Socrates, for example, but Socrates made no pretention to divinity.  The humbler teacher is the greater teacher in my book.

[Alan Burns]

A better plan all round, would be to cut out the earthly crap altogether and just go straight to heaven, that way god is doing the best by all people without fear, favour, or suffering.

Any regime which retained the unrestrained self centred nature of human beings would not be heaven.

[torridon]

A better plan all round, would be to cut out the earthly crap altogether and just go straight to heaven, that way god is doing the best by all people without fear, favour, or suffering.

Any regime which retained the unrestrained self centred nature of human beings would not be heaven.

In a material earthly life we have to be self centered; if we were designed by god, then this was part of his design. The airline stewardess always says put on your own oxygen mask first before attempting to help others.  In heaven this would not be required, self-centeredness is an essential quality for an earthly life, but not for a heavenly one.

[ekim]

A better plan all round, would be to cut out the earthly crap altogether and just go straight to heaven, that way god is doing the best by all people without fear, favour, or suffering.

Any regime which retained the unrestrained self centred nature of human beings would not be heaven.

In a material earthly life we have to be self centered; if we were designed by god, then this was part of his design. The airline stewardess always says put on your own oxygen mask first before attempting to help others.  In heaven this would not be required, self-centeredness is an essential quality for an earthly life, but not for a heavenly one.

The Christian 'steward' Jesus said "First get your own vision clear then you will be in a position to clarify others."
I suspect that Jesus was advocating a way to bring the 'heavenly' state of being into the earthly life by self surrender/sacrifice which is quite a challenging path.  Many are called, few make it, probably because as you say the earthly life is geared to self centeredness, self satisfaction and self survival.

[Rhiannon]

Read the Four Gospels with a open mind, forget the miracles, focus on the man Jesus, his deeds and teaching, it works, billions will testify to this.

Luck! No I think it is a bit more than just luck.

Gonnagle.

You can't forget the miracles if they are there in black and white.  Your exhortation is to become selective, and maybe that does work for you and maybe for billions of others, but it would niggle me.  A great reformer, put to death by his own deeply conservative people, I could buy that.  You could see parallels in other great minds from the ancient world, Socrates, for example, but Socrates made no pretention to divinity.  The humbler teacher is the greater teacher in my book.

I don't think Jesus did either, personally.

[Alan Burns]

The Christian 'steward' Jesus said "First get your own vision clear then you will be in a position to clarify others."
I suspect that Jesus was advocating a way to bring the 'heavenly' state of being into the earthly life by self surrender/sacrifice which is quite a challenging path.  Many are called, few make it, probably because as you say the earthly life is geared to self centeredness, self satisfaction and self survival.

I think the human capability of self sacrifice to help others is just a glimpse of our potential heavenly quality.

[Alan Burns]

I think one important difference might be that, as far as I remember, NM was not involved with teaching children in Sunday Schooland AB is.
I am very strongly against anyone telling children that God - any god or similar - is absolutely true, instead of educating them about how people believe that notion.

And that is the most important point of it, and I agree with you, Susan.

Len,
I try hard not to indocrinate, but just to present evidence.  It is very important that people choose to follow Jesus of their own free will, and not to be bullied into it.  There is plenty of peer pressure to turn them against religion, so I just give them the opportunity to see what it is before they make a decision whether to accept it or not.

[Shaker]

Len,
I try hard not to indocrinate

Well, you stand zero chance of doing that. Instead of a captive audience of children or otherwise credulous and impressionable people you have to engage with intelligent adults who can, and do, examine your claims and assertions critically, sceptical and rationally, and can tell you what they think.

That's why no one buys a word you say, Alan.

but just to present evidence. It is very important that people choose to follow Jesus of their own free will, and not to be bullied into it.  There is plenty of peer pressure to turn them against religion, so I just give them the opportunity to see what it is before they make a decision whether to accept it or not.

A couple of days ago you spoke of the "danger" of people rejecting Jesus. I asked you what this danger was but you didn't reply. Will you do so now?

[Shaker]

Alan probably believes that those who don't get 'saved' go to hell.

I don't know what he believes - that's why I asked (now twice).

[floo]

Alan probably believes that those who don't get 'saved' go to hell.

I don't know what he believes - that's why I asked (now twice).

I agree it is hard to pin him down!

[Leonard James]

Len,
I try hard not to indocrinate, but just to present evidence.  It is very important that people choose to follow Jesus of their own free will, and not to be bullied into it.  There is plenty of peer pressure to turn them against religion, so I just give them the opportunity to see what it is before they make a decision whether to accept it or not.

I'm glad to hear that, Alan, but can't help feeling that your children are handicapped by growing up in such a "God" orientated home.

That said, it doesn't really matter as long as you turn them against any form of antisocial activity, and point out to them the wickedness of acting like the extremists of all religions.

[floo]

You certainly don't need to be religious to bring your children up properly!

[SusanDoris]

AB mentioned that peer pressure might draw young people away from their Christian beliefs - and a good thing too if that is going to help them to see through the talk, myths and totally unsupported claims of adults to have communicated with God/god/s, had prayers answered by said myth, that said 'God' loves and cares for them, etc etc.

Alan burns: Can you give an example of what you say to young people to keep them within what I suppose you might call the 'fold'? Or what you might say to deter them from taking a real look at, for instance, the Humanist RE Syllabus?

[Leonard James]

You certainly don't need to be religious to bring your children up properly!

But if you ARE religious it makes the job much more difficult!