Searching for GOD...

[Outrider]

Another excellent brace of posts, big O.

Taking the weekends off to focus on the family leads to plenty of energy for a Monday morning flurry

I just run the risk of getting four posts on after making a response to find that someone else beat me to it by 48 hours...

O.

[SusanDoris]

Another excellent brace of posts, big O.

Agreed. I had to read Sriram's post twice to see if what I'd heard was what I heard!

[Leonard James]

Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

I am at a loss to know what evidence this affirmation is based on. There is just as much con evidence to it as there is pro, which is exactly what you would expect from a form of life derived by natural processes.

[torridon]

Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

I am at a loss to know what evidence this affirmation is based on. There is just as much con evidence to it as there is pro, which is exactly what you would expect from a form of life derived by natural processes.

If 'God' were 'love', then it would be much clearer to just refer to 'love'.  Noone doubts love exists, but calling it God imports all manner of controversial mumbo into the concept of love.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Torridon,

No one doubts love exists!!
What is Love?

I look forward to our Shaker giving us the OED definition and our Leonard telling us it is all about evolution.

And remember, no mumbo jumbo allowed.

Gonnagle.

[Rhiannon]

I understand what you are saying, but I am just looking for a way to help you to open the door to let God into your life, because He does exist.

You might genuinely mean that in a positive way. But it is precisely that sort of superior and patronizing stand that results in all the mistakes that Christianity and Islam have committed over the centuries.

God is within everyone and as long as people are good, humane and loving people their disbelief in your particular deity cannot be of any consequence.  Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

Fab post. 

[Alan Burns]

their disbelief in your particular deity cannot be of any consequence.

If this statement was true, it makes the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus totally meaningless.

[Rhiannon]

Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

I am at a loss to know what evidence this affirmation is based on. There is just as much con evidence to it as there is pro, which is exactly what you would expect from a form of life derived by natural processes.

If 'God' were 'love', then it would be much clearer to just refer to 'love'.  Noone doubts love exists, but calling it God imports all manner of controversial mumbo into the concept of love.

Gonners is right, much abuse is carried out in the name of love, murders are committed for it. So is that love? Or is it something else?

The reason I like Sriram's post is that he directed it at Christians who seem to think that loving, kind human beings don't have God in their lives. If their God of love exists then he is present in every loving relationship, and generous or heroic action. It's one reason why I have always despaired of homophobia from Chrisians, both as a believer myself and as a non-believer. Why on earth would Christians want less love in the world when is is supposedly a demonstration of God's presence?

[Leonard James]

Dear Torridon,

No one doubts love exists!!
What is Love?

I look forward to our Shaker giving us the OED definition and our Leonard telling us it is all about evolution.

And remember, no mumbo jumbo allowed.

Gonnagle.

My pleasure, Gonners! 

Love is :-

1) A posh name for the parental, protective instinct that arose during evolution.

2) A posh name for the choice of partner we make for reproduction.

3) A posh name for the group instinct which binds us together in the fight for survival.

Any combination of the above three.

[Leonard James]

their disbelief in your particular deity cannot be of any consequence.

If this statement was true, it makes the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus totally meaningless.

The crucifixion, if as depicted in the NT, was merely the result of Jesus getting up the nose of the authorities so much that they got rid of him. It didn't mean anything except behave yourself or accept the consequences.

[Shaker]

their disbelief in your particular deity cannot be of any consequence.

If this statement was true, it makes the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus totally meaningless.

Correct.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Leonard,

But!! You yourself are living proof that number two on your list is not the be all end all, love, a very small word but its meaning is huge, monumental.

As for the crucifixion, you make the mistake that so many make, you focus on just one part of the life and Teachings of Our Lord.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Leonard,

But!! You yourself are living proof that number two on your list is not the be all end all, love, a very small word but its meaning is huge, monumental.

As for the crucifixion, you make the mistake that so many make, you focus on just one part of the life and Teachings of Our Lord.

Gonnagle.

Surely, on the 2nd point, Len is only responding to Alan Burns emphasising it?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

Don't call me Shirley, and sorry I thought our Leonard was responding to my post, and I was hoping that the thread might indulge me on the many and varied definitions/meanings of that small word Love.

Is there no love without compassion? just asking.

Gonnagle.

[Leonard James]

Dear Leonard,

But!! You yourself are living proof that number two on your list is not the be all end all, love, a very small word but its meaning is huge, monumental.

I was simply telling you how "love" arose. Genetic inclinations to feel it for the same sex is another matter entirely.

As for the crucifixion, you make the mistake that so many make, you focus on just one part of the life and Teachings of Our Lord.

I was simply explaining why it happened. I have always recognised that Jesus was very wise in many things ... but he certainly wasn't/isn't my lord.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Leonard,

And I was simply trying to explain that evolution ( for me ) does not go far enough in explaining that little word Love.

Gonnagle.

[Leonard James]

Dear Leonard,

And I was simply trying to explain that evolution ( for me ) does not go far enough in explaining that little word Love.

Gonnagle.

Homo sapiens has given its own interpretation to a naturally developed instinct. We are born romancers!

[Sriram]

Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

I am at a loss to know what evidence this affirmation is based on. There is just as much con evidence to it as there is pro, which is exactly what you would expect from a form of life derived by natural processes.

Len,

That's just your assumption. Till we have established beyond doubt one way or the other...we all should be prepared to hear out arguments based on other assumptions as well.

Most of us believe that  life is not just random gene variation and NS. We believe there is much more to life than just  that.

[Sriram]

Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

I am at a loss to know what evidence this affirmation is based on. There is just as much con evidence to it as there is pro, which is exactly what you would expect from a form of life derived by natural processes.

If 'God' were 'love', then it would be much clearer to just refer to 'love'.  Noone doubts love exists, but calling it God imports all manner of controversial mumbo into the concept of love.

torridon,

Just refer to my thread on 'Real God'...'Tat Tvam ASi' and other similar posts.

Realizing God is about self development and about increasing our universal integrative qualities. Its all about seeing the whole world as one.  This is love.

Love is therefore an attribute of the highest level of consciousness within ourselves.  The more we realize God the more loving we become.

PS: I realize the word 'love' has been used for lots of relationships.  I am using it only in the sense of unconditional love and compassion and not to be confused with 'attraction', 'attachment', 'sex' and so on.

[Sriram]

their disbelief in your particular deity cannot be of any consequence.

If this statement was true, it makes the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus totally meaningless.

Alan,

Well...what can I say?!  I know that Christians regard the death and resurrection of Jesus as a momentous event (assuming it actually did happen).   But unfortunately none of the remaining 5 billion people do so.

You might believe that these 5 billion people are your unfortunate brethren  who have not been initiated into the holy word of God and are therefore destined to burn in hell for all eternity.... and you are trying to save their souls by spreading the message.....or something like that.   But everyone does not think so.

My earlier post was meant to provide a common definition of God that would suit everyone and not just Christians.

[Leonard James]

Len,

That's just your assumption. Till we have established beyond doubt one way or the other...we all should be prepared to hear out arguments based on other assumptions as well.

Most of us believe that  life is not just random gene variation and NS. We believe there is much more to life than just  that.

Yes, I am sadly aware of that! Most humans are terribly reluctant to accept that this life is all we get despite the fact that everything points to it being that way.

But if the people who continue to follow their dreams of it being otherwise can do so without negatively affecting their fellow man, why not? 

Unfortunately, there will always be the extremists who want to carry it too far because they think that is what their "God" wants. 

[Sriram]

Len,

That's just your assumption. Till we have established beyond doubt one way or the other...we all should be prepared to hear out arguments based on other assumptions as well.

Most of us believe that  life is not just random gene variation and NS. We believe there is much more to life than just  that.

Yes, I am sadly aware of that! Most humans are terribly reluctant to accept that this life is all we get despite the fact that everything points to it being that way.

But if the people who continue to follow their dreams of it being otherwise can do so without negatively affecting their fellow man, why not? 

Unfortunately, there will always be the extremists who want to carry it too far because they think that is what their "God" wants. 

Fact is that  no one understands life....and that includes scientists.  We all have beliefs.  So...forcing or even trying to convert others to ones beliefs is rather presumptuous and vain.   

We can all however, try to come to a common understanding of life, to the extent possible.  That was what my earlier post to Alan was about.

[Alien]

Dear Torridon,

No one doubts love exists!!
What is Love?

I look forward to our Shaker giving us the OED definition and our Leonard telling us it is all about evolution.

And remember, no mumbo jumbo allowed.

Gonnagle.

My pleasure, Gonners! 

Love is :-

1) A posh name for the parental, protective instinct that arose during evolution.

2) A posh name for the choice of partner we make for reproduction.

3) A posh name for the group instinct which binds us together in the fight for survival.

Any combination of the above three.

A problem with this is that this is not speaking about the same thing as when the bible says, "God is love". In 1 John 4:8 and 16, John is using the word "agape". Greek has 3 other words for love, but this "agape" is different from those words. "Agape" love is the sort of love a nurse shows to a patient. She may or may not like her patient, but she seeks the patient's good, no matter what his or her feelings.

That doesn't fit with any or your items above. Your items would most likely be "storge", "eros" and "philia" respectively.

[Alan Burns]

Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

Love is certainly one of God's great gifts, and to many, the existence of love is proof of the existence of God.

But God is much, much more than a feeling or emotion.  We can't comprehend the full nature of God, which is why He had to become one of us to make Himself known.

[Sriram]

Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

Love is certainly one of God's great gifts, and to many, the existence of love is proof of the existence of God.

But God is much, much more than a feeling or emotion.  We can't comprehend the full nature of God, which is why He had to become one of us to make Himself known.

Love is not an emotion. It is not attachment, attraction, sympathy. Love is seeing all creation as one and everything as a part of it. All parts of a whole. That includes all humans, animals etc.  Everything fits in.