Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

Love is not an emotion. It is not attachment, attraction, sympathy. Love is seeing all creation as one and everything as a part of it. All parts of a whole. That includes all humans, animals etc.  Everything fits in.

Except evil

[ekim]

Dear Torridon,

No one doubts love exists!!
What is Love?

I look forward to our Shaker giving us the OED definition and our Leonard telling us it is all about evolution.

And remember, no mumbo jumbo allowed.

Gonnagle.

My pleasure, Gonners! 

Love is :-

1) A posh name for the parental, protective instinct that arose during evolution.

2) A posh name for the choice of partner we make for reproduction.

3) A posh name for the group instinct which binds us together in the fight for survival.

Any combination of the above three.

A problem with this is that this is not speaking about the same thing as when the bible says, "God is love". In 1 John 4:8 and 16, John is using the word "agape". Greek has 3 other words for love, but this "agape" is different from those words. "Agape" love is the sort of love a nurse shows to a patient. She may or may not like her patient, but she seeks the patient's good, no matter what his or her feelings.

That doesn't fit with any or your items above. Your items would most likely be "storge", "eros" and "philia" respectively.

I think the love that Jesus was indicating was a bit different.  What you say about the nurse could be  equally related to her duty as a nurse.  I suspect that the 'Jesus' love refers to a state of being which when radiated from the core (from the Latin for 'heart') of that being is indifferent to its recipient, like the analogy 'the sun shines on all. no matter whether good or bad'.  When 'in love' what else can you do but express it.  I agree that it does not relate to the more self centred procreative urges although there are instances of self sacrifice arising from those urges.

[Nearly Sane]

No, love is like a butterfly, or oxygen, or a battlefield ....

[Alien]

Dear Torridon,

No one doubts love exists!!
What is Love?

I look forward to our Shaker giving us the OED definition and our Leonard telling us it is all about evolution.

And remember, no mumbo jumbo allowed.

Gonnagle.

My pleasure, Gonners! 

Love is :-

1) A posh name for the parental, protective instinct that arose during evolution.

2) A posh name for the choice of partner we make for reproduction.

3) A posh name for the group instinct which binds us together in the fight for survival.

Any combination of the above three.

A problem with this is that this is not speaking about the same thing as when the bible says, "God is love". In 1 John 4:8 and 16, John is using the word "agape". Greek has 3 other words for love, but this "agape" is different from those words. "Agape" love is the sort of love a nurse shows to a patient. She may or may not like her patient, but she seeks the patient's good, no matter what his or her feelings.

That doesn't fit with any or your items above. Your items would most likely be "storge", "eros" and "philia" respectively.

I think the love that Jesus was indicating was a bit different.  What you say about the nurse could be  equally related to her duty as a nurse.  I suspect that the 'Jesus' love refers to a state of being which when radiated from the core (from the Latin for 'heart') of that being is indifferent to its recipient, like the analogy 'the sun shines on all. no matter whether good or bad'.  When 'in love' what else can you do but express it.  I agree that it does not relate to the more self centred procreative urges although there are instances of self sacrifice arising from those urges.

Yes, it is her/his duty as a nurse, but it is something she/he has signed up for. My point is that agape love does not necessarily entail any emotion, which is different to how the term is usually used by most people.

Being "in love" has nothing to do with agape love, despite people often having 1 Corinthians 13 read at church weddings.

[Alien]

Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

Love is certainly one of God's great gifts, and to many, the existence of love is proof of the existence of God.

But God is much, much more than a feeling or emotion.  We can't comprehend the full nature of God, which is why He had to become one of us to make Himself known.

What the hell is loving about the Biblical deity?

About God as depicted in the bible or your jaundiced view (jaundiced for whatever reason, bearing in mind what sounds like a very dodgy church experience in your childhood)?

[floo]

Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

Love is certainly one of God's great gifts, and to many, the existence of love is proof of the existence of God.

But God is much, much more than a feeling or emotion.  We can't comprehend the full nature of God, which is why He had to become one of us to make Himself known.

What the hell is loving about the Biblical deity?

About God as depicted in the bible or your jaundiced view (jaundiced for whatever reason, bearing in mind what sounds like a very dodgy church experience in your childhood)?

I am talking about the deity depicted in the Bible, there is NOTHING good or loving about it!

[Alien]

Haven't you heard.... 'God is love'?   

Love is certainly one of God's great gifts, and to many, the existence of love is proof of the existence of God.

But God is much, much more than a feeling or emotion.  We can't comprehend the full nature of God, which is why He had to become one of us to make Himself known.

What the hell is loving about the Biblical deity?

About God as depicted in the bible or your jaundiced view (jaundiced for whatever reason, bearing in mind what sounds like a very dodgy church experience in your childhood)?

I am talking about the deity depicted in the Bible, there is NOTHING good or loving about it!

Ah, right.

[Sriram]

Love is not an emotion. It is not attachment, attraction, sympathy. Love is seeing all creation as one and everything as a part of it. All parts of a whole. That includes all humans, animals etc.  Everything fits in.

Except evil

There is nothing called evil. What we see as evil is just some animal/insect behaviour carried forward.... that is unsuitable for human society. 

[Alien]

Love is not an emotion. It is not attachment, attraction, sympathy. Love is seeing all creation as one and everything as a part of it. All parts of a whole. That includes all humans, animals etc.  Everything fits in.

Except evil

There is nothing called evil. What we see as evil is just some animal/insect behaviour carried forward.... that is unsuitable for human society.

Have you ever been to Auschwitz?

[Alan Burns]

Love is not an emotion. It is not attachment, attraction, sympathy. Love is seeing all creation as one and everything as a part of it. All parts of a whole. That includes all humans, animals etc.  Everything fits in.

Except evil

There is nothing called evil. What we see as evil is just some animal/insect behaviour carried forward.... that is unsuitable for human society.

Your earlier post depicting nothing but Love in this world may well have been true before the Fall, but then evil crept in ...

Jesus came to deliver us from evil

[Leonard James]

Dear Torridon,

No one doubts love exists!!
What is Love?

I look forward to our Shaker giving us the OED definition and our Leonard telling us it is all about evolution.

And remember, no mumbo jumbo allowed.

Gonnagle.

My pleasure, Gonners! 

Love is :-

1) A posh name for the parental, protective instinct that arose during evolution.

2) A posh name for the choice of partner we make for reproduction.

3) A posh name for the group instinct which binds us together in the fight for survival.

Any combination of the above three.

A problem with this is that this is not speaking about the same thing as when the bible says, "God is love". In 1 John 4:8 and 16, John is using the word "agape". Greek has 3 other words for love, but this "agape" is different from those words. "Agape" love is the sort of love a nurse shows to a patient. She may or may not like her patient, but she seeks the patient's good, no matter what his or her feelings.

That doesn't fit with any or your items above. Your items would most likely be "storge", "eros" and "philia" respectively.

The love you are talking about is what I have described in 3). It is the instinct which causes us to care for each other as a group, because we are a social species and can only survive as such if we care for one another to a certain extent.

[Leonard James]

Len,

That's just your assumption. Till we have established beyond doubt one way or the other...we all should be prepared to hear out arguments based on other assumptions as well.

Most of us believe that  life is not just random gene variation and NS. We believe there is much more to life than just  that.

Yes, I am sadly aware of that! Most humans are terribly reluctant to accept that this life is all we get despite the fact that everything points to it being that way.

But if the people who continue to follow their dreams of it being otherwise can do so without negatively affecting their fellow man, why not? 

Unfortunately, there will always be the extremists who want to carry it too far because they think that is what their "God" wants. 

Fact is that  no one understands life....and that includes scientists.  We all have beliefs.  So...forcing or even trying to convert others to ones beliefs is rather presumptuous and vain.   

We can all however, try to come to a common understanding of life, to the extent possible.  That was what my earlier post to Alan was about.

You will never come to a common understanding of life if you start talking about "meanings" and "powers beyond our understanding", which immediately divides people ... each having his own idea of what you mean.

We can only take an "understanding" life as it comes to us individually, and agree to let everyone else believe what they want as long as they don't harm others because of it.

[Leonard James]

Love is not an emotion. It is not attachment, attraction, sympathy. Love is seeing all creation as one and everything as a part of it. All parts of a whole. That includes all humans, animals etc.  Everything fits in.

Except evil

There is nothing called evil. What we see as evil is just some animal/insect behaviour carried forward.... that is unsuitable for human society.

Oh come off it, Sriram! Wrong-doing is just as much apart of human behaviour as right-doing! It stems from the very heart of evolution ... random mutations worked on by environmental circumstances.

[Alien]

Dear Torridon,

No one doubts love exists!!
What is Love?

I look forward to our Shaker giving us the OED definition and our Leonard telling us it is all about evolution.

And remember, no mumbo jumbo allowed.

Gonnagle.

My pleasure, Gonners! 

Love is :-

1) A posh name for the parental, protective instinct that arose during evolution.

2) A posh name for the choice of partner we make for reproduction.

3) A posh name for the group instinct which binds us together in the fight for survival.

Any combination of the above three.

A problem with this is that this is not speaking about the same thing as when the bible says, "God is love". In 1 John 4:8 and 16, John is using the word "agape". Greek has 3 other words for love, but this "agape" is different from those words. "Agape" love is the sort of love a nurse shows to a patient. She may or may not like her patient, but she seeks the patient's good, no matter what his or her feelings.

That doesn't fit with any or your items above. Your items would most likely be "storge", "eros" and "philia" respectively.

The love you are talking about is what I have described in 3). It is the instinct which causes us to care for each other as a group, because we are a social species and can only survive as such if we care for one another to a certain extent.

So you are saying that unconditional love is what has kept the human race in existence? Really? I've not seen a lot of it around. Generally I see rather conditional love and a fair bit of selfishness and some hate.

[Leonard James]

So you are saying that unconditional love is what has kept the human race in existence? Really? I've not seen a lot of it around. Generally I see rather conditional love and a fair bit of selfishness and some hate.

It should be obvious to even you that a prehistorical social group that didn't unite to fight for survival against other groups would stand little chance of surviving and passing on their genes.

"Civilisation" has created an unnatural state of affairs in which selfishness can flourish.

[Alien]

So you are saying that unconditional love is what has kept the human race in existence? Really? I've not seen a lot of it around. Generally I see rather conditional love and a fair bit of selfishness and some hate.

It should be obvious to even you that a prehistorical social group that didn't unite to fight for survival against other groups would stand little chance of surviving and passing on their genes.

"Civilisation" has created an unnatural state of affairs in which selfishness can flourish.

I'm not talking about uniting a group; I'm talking about unconditional love.

[Leonard James]

I'm not talking about uniting a group; I'm talking about unconditional love.

And I'm telling you that "unconditional love" (as in your nurse example) is simply a development of the uniting instinct.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Me,

Searching for God, we have a hard time pinning down the definition of Love, what chance have we in searching for God.

Does Christianity give you a get out clause.

I think so, well except when some Witter on about the Trinity.

Gonnagle.

[Leonard James]

Dear Me,

Searching for God, we have a hard time pinning down the definition of Love, what chance have we in searching for God.

Does Christianity give you a get out clause.

I think so, well except when some Witter on about the Trinity.

Gonnagle.

The problem is the misuse of the word 'love'. A nurse caring for her patient, a copper helping an old lady across the road, etc., is not love. Christians cheapen the word by using it for 'love thy neighbour', when what they really mean is treat him/her with respect and  consideration.

Love is altogether more powerful than this ... it is what we feel for our families and closest friends.

[floo]

Dear Me,

Searching for God, we have a hard time pinning down the definition of Love, what chance have we in searching for God.

Does Christianity give you a get out clause.

I think so, well except when some Witter on about the Trinity.

Gonnagle.

The problem is the misuse of the word 'love'. A nurse caring for her patient, a copper helping an old lady across the road, etc., is not love. Christians cheapen the word by using it for 'love thy neighbour', when what they really mean is treat him/her with respect and  consideration.

Love is altogether more powerful than this ... it is what we feel for our families and closest friends.

Agreed.

Attributing the word 'love' to the deity is really weird if it deeds in the Bible had any veracity!

[Leonard James]

Agreed.

Attributing the word 'love' to the deity is really weird if it deeds in the Bible had any veracity!

I think we have to accept that the "God" of the Bible is nothing more than the invention of its writers, just as all other "gods" are. The ancients used him as a cover man for all the atrocities they carried out.

[jjohnjil]

Agreed.

Attributing the word 'love' to the deity is really weird if it deeds in the Bible had any veracity!

I think we have to accept that the "God" of the Bible is nothing more than the invention of its writers, just as all other "gods" are. The ancients used him as a cover man for all the atrocities they carried out.

I'm not sure I agree with you there, Len, I think the ancients really believed that gods existed, to them it must have been the logical answer to all the amazing things that happened.

What is so weird though is how some people are still thinking that way today!

[Leonard James]

I'm not sure I agree with you there, Len, I think the ancients really believed that gods existed, to them it must have been the logical answer to all the amazing things that happened.

Including their murderous campaigns against others. That is what I meant by using him as a cover for their own crimes.

What is so weird though is how some people are still thinking that way today!

It's always easier to follow instructions than to work out a moral code yourself.

[Alien]

I'm not talking about uniting a group; I'm talking about unconditional love.

And I'm telling you that "unconditional love" (as in your nurse example) is simply a development of the uniting instinct.

OK. What is your evidence that this is the case then?

[Alien]

Dear Me,

Searching for God, we have a hard time pinning down the definition of Love, what chance have we in searching for God.

Does Christianity give you a get out clause.

I think so, well except when some Witter on about the Trinity.

Gonnagle.

The problem is the misuse of the word 'love'. A nurse caring for her patient, a copper helping an old lady across the road, etc., is not love. Christians cheapen the word by using it for 'love thy neighbour', when what they really mean is treat him/her with respect and  consideration.

Love is altogether more powerful than this ... it is what we feel for our families and closest friends.

So to you "treating someone with respect and consideration" is the same as "unconditional love"? Really?