Searching for GOD...

[Alien]

Dear Me,

Searching for God, we have a hard time pinning down the definition of Love, what chance have we in searching for God.

Does Christianity give you a get out clause.

I think so, well except when some Witter on about the Trinity.

Gonnagle.

The problem is the misuse of the word 'love'. A nurse caring for her patient, a copper helping an old lady across the road, etc., is not love. Christians cheapen the word by using it for 'love thy neighbour', when what they really mean is treat him/her with respect and  consideration.

Love is altogether more powerful than this ... it is what we feel for our families and closest friends.

Agreed.

Attributing the word 'love' to the deity is really weird if it deeds in the Bible had any veracity!

Give it a break, floo.

[Alien]

Agreed.

Attributing the word 'love' to the deity is really weird if it deeds in the Bible had any veracity!

I think we have to accept that the "God" of the Bible is nothing more than the invention of its writers, just as all other "gods" are. ...

Why?

[Alien]

Agreed.

Attributing the word 'love' to the deity is really weird if it deeds in the Bible had any veracity!

I think we have to accept that the "God" of the Bible is nothing more than the invention of its writers, just as all other "gods" are. The ancients used him as a cover man for all the atrocities they carried out.

I'm not sure I agree with you there, Len, I think the ancients really believed that gods existed, to them it must have been the logical answer to all the amazing things that happened.

What is so weird though is how some people are still thinking that way today!

Why?

[jjohnjil]

Agreed.

Attributing the word 'love' to the deity is really weird if it deeds in the Bible had any veracity!

I think we have to accept that the "God" of the Bible is nothing more than the invention of its writers, just as all other "gods" are. The ancients used him as a cover man for all the atrocities they carried out.

I'm not sure I agree with you there, Len, I think the ancients really believed that gods existed, to them it must have been the logical answer to all the amazing things that happened.

What is so weird though is how some people are still thinking that way today!

Why?

So you still think volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, solar eclipses are all signs from God, Alien?

Sorry, silly me  ... of course you do!

[floo]

Agreed.

Attributing the word 'love' to the deity is really weird if it deeds in the Bible had any veracity!

I think we have to accept that the "God" of the Bible is nothing more than the invention of its writers, just as all other "gods" are. The ancients used him as a cover man for all the atrocities they carried out.

On the basis of 'our god is bigger than yours'!

[floo]

Agreed.

Attributing the word 'love' to the deity is really weird if it deeds in the Bible had any veracity!

I think we have to accept that the "God" of the Bible is nothing more than the invention of its writers, just as all other "gods" are. The ancients used him as a cover man for all the atrocities they carried out.

I'm not sure I agree with you there, Len, I think the ancients really believed that gods existed, to them it must have been the logical answer to all the amazing things that happened.

What is so weird though is how some people are still thinking that way today!

Why?

So you still think volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, solar eclipses are all signs from God, Alien?

Sorry, silly me  ... of course you do!

The deity is telling us how naughty we are!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Leonard,

Working out a moral code for yourself, most of the teachings of our Lord are universal, timeless, put into practice they actually work.

Loving thy neighbour is mentioned in most religion and philosophies, in fact some great thinkers ( Albert Einstein ) have taken it and expanded on it, loving should be shown to all living things.

Gonnagle.

[Outrider]

Working out a moral code for yourself, most of the teachings of our Lord are universal, timeless, put into practice they actually work.

Loving thy neighbour is mentioned in most religion and philosophies, in fact some great thinkers ( Albert Einstein ) have taken it and expanded on it, loving should be shown to all living things.

A big part of the problem is that whilst there are too many people from all walks of life that don't follow that relatively simple philosophy, it takes the deeply religious to turn not following it into a virtue - institutionalised homophobia, terror campaigns, misogyny and cover-up of abuse.

O.

[SusanDoris]

#3669 Alien  (I'll check # number again in a miunute.)

Why? Because there is no god of any sort anywhere, never has been ever, heaven and hell, just like any god ever thought of,  are figments of human imagination ... and I do hope you will read the link Shaker has given to the Atheist question. But I bet you won't. *sigh*

[Sriram]

Love is not an emotion. It is not attachment, attraction, sympathy. Love is seeing all creation as one and everything as a part of it. All parts of a whole. That includes all humans, animals etc.  Everything fits in.

Except evil

There is nothing called evil. What we see as evil is just some animal/insect behaviour carried forward.... that is unsuitable for human society.

Have you ever been to Auschwitz?

Ok...  But I am unable to fathom how anything can be outside the creation of an omniscient, omnipotent God.  As far as I am concerned everything that exists is part of God's creation....and that includes what you call as evil.

Though we may perceive certain things as 'evil' from a subjective point of view....everything has to be a part of a bigger picture. 

[Leonard James]

Dear Leonard,

Working out a moral code for yourself, most of the teachings of our Lord are universal, timeless, put into practice they actually work.

Of course! Most of the teachings of your lord are simply confirmation of the wisdom of previous wise men who taught the same things.

Loving thy neighbour is mentioned in most religion and philosophies, in fact some great thinkers ( Albert Einstein ) have taken it and expanded on it, loving should be shown to all living things.

There you go again, Gonners, cheapening the word love. 

[Alan Burns]

Love is not an emotion. It is not attachment, attraction, sympathy. Love is seeing all creation as one and everything as a part of it. All parts of a whole. That includes all humans, animals etc.  Everything fits in.

Except evil

There is nothing called evil. What we see as evil is just some animal/insect behaviour carried forward.... that is unsuitable for human society.

Have you ever been to Auschwitz?

Ok...  But I am unable to fathom how anything can be outside the creation of an omniscient, omnipotent God.  As far as I am concerned everything that exists is part of God's creation....and that includes what you call as evil.

Though we may perceive certain things as 'evil' from a subjective point of view....everything has to be a part of a bigger picture.

In order for love to occur, we must have free will.  But introducing free will inevitably leads to the possibility of evil, which is the opposite of love.

[Nearly Sane]

So does God love us? If so, by your logic it must be inevitable that God could hate us? If it couldn't then it has no free will and then neither do we.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Outrider,

Oan yerself old son!! Prof Dawkins would be heartily proud of you.

Gonnagle.

[Sriram]

Love is not an emotion. It is not attachment, attraction, sympathy. Love is seeing all creation as one and everything as a part of it. All parts of a whole. That includes all humans, animals etc.  Everything fits in.

Except evil

There is nothing called evil. What we see as evil is just some animal/insect behaviour carried forward.... that is unsuitable for human society.

Have you ever been to Auschwitz?

Ok...  But I am unable to fathom how anything can be outside the creation of an omniscient, omnipotent God.  As far as I am concerned everything that exists is part of God's creation....and that includes what you call as evil.

Though we may perceive certain things as 'evil' from a subjective point of view....everything has to be a part of a bigger picture.

In order for love to occur, we must have free will.  But introducing free will inevitably leads to the possibility of evil, which is the opposite of love.

Alan,

According to me, 'love' is not an emotion we can choose to exhibit.  It should not be confused with attraction, attachment, sex and other such relationship issues.....though the word is often wrongly used in this manner.   

Love... IMO, is an integrating force (something like gravity) that flows from the highest level of consciousness. It brings together everything without fear or favor. That is what is meant by 'unconditional'. 

'Love' can never be directed specifically to certain individuals.  Any person would be capable of certain amount of love depending on his/her spiritual level.  And he will exhibit that amount of love towards everyone and everything...friends and strangers alike. 

Love will just flow all around from any person... like radiation. More from people of higher levels and less from people at lower levels.

Cheers.

Sriram

[Alan Burns]

Love is not an emotion. It is not attachment, attraction, sympathy. Love is seeing all creation as one and everything as a part of it. All parts of a whole. That includes all humans, animals etc.  Everything fits in.

Except evil

There is nothing called evil. What we see as evil is just some animal/insect behaviour carried forward.... that is unsuitable for human society.

Have you ever been to Auschwitz?

Ok...  But I am unable to fathom how anything can be outside the creation of an omniscient, omnipotent God.  As far as I am concerned everything that exists is part of God's creation....and that includes what you call as evil.

Though we may perceive certain things as 'evil' from a subjective point of view....everything has to be a part of a bigger picture.

In order for love to occur, we must have free will.  But introducing free will inevitably leads to the possibility of evil, which is the opposite of love.

Alan,

According to me, 'love' is not an emotion we can choose to exhibit.  It should not be confused with attraction, attachment, sex and other such relationship issues.....though the word is often wrongly used in this manner.   

Love... IMO, is an integrating force (something like gravity) that flows from the highest level of consciousness. It brings together everything without fear or favor. That is what is meant by 'unconditional'. 

'Love' can never be directed specifically to certain individuals.  Any person would be capable of certain amount of love depending on his/her spiritual level.  And he will exhibit that amount of love towards everyone and everything...friends and strangers alike. 

Love will just flow all around from any person... like radiation. More from people of higher levels and less from people at lower levels.

Cheers.

Sriram

Sorry Sriram, but this sounds like a man made attept to describe God's greatest gift.
Love not freely given is no love at all

[torridon]

In order for love to occur, we must have free will.  But introducing free will inevitably leads to the possibility of evil, which is the opposite of love.

I don't think it works like that. You cannot chooose to love someone. Could you choose to love someone that you find despicable ? I love my children, but that is not because I made some arbitrary choice born of 'free' will to love those particular people, it is an expression of biological imperatives written deep into my being. I cannot help loving them.  If we went around choosing what to love on some 'free' basis the world would be a very weird place.

[Maeght]

In order for love to occur, we must have free will.  But introducing free will inevitably leads to the possibility of evil, which is the opposite of love.

I don't think it works like that. You cannot chooose to love someone. Could you choose to love someone that you find despicable ? I love my children, but that is not because I made some arbitrary choice born of 'free' will to love those particular people, it is an expression of biological imperatives written deep into my being. I cannot help loving them.  If we went around choosing what to love on some 'free' basis the world would be a very weird place.

Agreed. I don't see any connection between love and freewill.

[ekim]

In order for love to occur, we must have free will.  But introducing free will inevitably leads to the possibility of evil, which is the opposite of love.

I don't think it works like that. You cannot chooose to love someone. Could you choose to love someone that you find despicable ? I love my children, but that is not because I made some arbitrary choice born of 'free' will to love those particular people, it is an expression of biological imperatives written deep into my being. I cannot help loving them.  If we went around choosing what to love on some 'free' basis the world would be a very weird place.

I  think Alan's statement is too simplistic.  I would have thought that in order for love to be expressed freely to all, the individual would  firstly need to be in that state of being called 'love' and secondly it would need to be free  of 'self' will, which can be in the form of an extended 'self' e.g. family, friends, tribe, nation, religion etc.  It is a big ask to attain that level which is sometimes summed up by the phrase 'pure of heart'. 

As regards 'the possibility of evil', let us say that the 'good' which arises from expressing love is promoting the well being of others e.g. bring others to that same state of love, then, if the motive is pure the next thing to consider is the means to that end.  Alan and others are using Christian doctrine as the means, others may use other religious doctrines.  If the outcome is failure to achieve the end product then should we say that the means is evil or simply a failure of method or that those who believe that they are expressing love in such a way have not attained the required purity yet?

[Rhiannon]

In order for love to occur, we must have free will.  But introducing free will inevitably leads to the possibility of evil, which is the opposite of love.

I don't think it works like that. You cannot chooose to love someone. Could you choose to love someone that you find despicable ? I love my children, but that is not because I made some arbitrary choice born of 'free' will to love those particular people, it is an expression of biological imperatives written deep into my being. I cannot help loving them.  If we went around choosing what to love on some 'free' basis the world would be a very weird place.

Agreed. I've chosen to walk away from someone I loved because circumstances were not right, but I had no choice over my feelings for them, only the actions that I took.

[Sriram]

Alan,

According to me, 'love' is not an emotion we can choose to exhibit.  It should not be confused with attraction, attachment, sex and other such relationship issues.....though the word is often wrongly used in this manner.   

Love... IMO, is an integrating force (something like gravity) that flows from the highest level of consciousness. It brings together everything without fear or favor. That is what is meant by 'unconditional'. 

'Love' can never be directed specifically to certain individuals.  Any person would be capable of certain amount of love depending on his/her spiritual level.  And he will exhibit that amount of love towards everyone and everything...friends and strangers alike. 

Love will just flow all around from any person... like radiation. More from people of higher levels and less from people at lower levels.

Cheers.

Sriram

Sorry Sriram, but this sounds like a man made attept to describe God's greatest gift.
Love not freely given is no love at all

Everything is a man made attempt to describe things.  God never describes things.

I never said that love cannot be given freely....(to the extent that someone is capable of).  I only said it will be uniform towards everyone.

[Alan Burns]

In order for love to occur, we must have free will.  But introducing free will inevitably leads to the possibility of evil, which is the opposite of love.

I don't think it works like that. You cannot chooose to love someone. Could you choose to love someone that you find despicable ? I love my children, but that is not because I made some arbitrary choice born of 'free' will to love those particular people, it is an expression of biological imperatives written deep into my being. I cannot help loving them.  If we went around choosing what to love on some 'free' basis the world would be a very weird place.

Love is a natural tendency built into every human being, but we have a free choice in how to express this love.  in partiular, there is a conflict between indulging in self centred desires and expressing our love for others, and we are free to choose and prioritise between these two.

[Nearly Sane]

Love is a natural tendency built into every human being, but we have a free choice in how to express this love.  in partiular, there is a conflict between indulging in self centred desires and expressing our love for others, and we are free to choose and prioritise between these two.

So do you just put in a a few words into the Assertatron such as love and free will, or do you have to give it a bit more structure?

[Alien]

Agreed.

Attributing the word 'love' to the deity is really weird if it deeds in the Bible had any veracity!

I think we have to accept that the "God" of the Bible is nothing more than the invention of its writers, just as all other "gods" are. The ancients used him as a cover man for all the atrocities they carried out.

I'm not sure I agree with you there, Len, I think the ancients really believed that gods existed, to them it must have been the logical answer to all the amazing things that happened.

What is so weird though is how some people are still thinking that way today!

Why?

So you still think volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, solar eclipses are all signs from God, Alien?

Sorry, silly me  ... of course you do!

No, why do you think I do?

[Alien]

#3669 Alien  (I'll check # number again in a miunute.)

Why? Because there is no god of any sort anywhere, never has been ever, heaven and hell, just like any god ever thought of,  are figments of human imagination ... and I do hope you will read the link Shaker has given to the Atheist question. But I bet you won't. *sigh*

Which link, please?