Searching for GOD...

[Sebastian Toe]

The soul is not of this universe, its true home is in heaven as we understand from biblical revelations.

So the human brain is the soul's window into this universe.  Any knowledge of this universe is perceived through the content of human brain cells.

So what other knowledge does it come ready packaged with?

[Alan Burns]

So what other knowledge does it come ready packaged with?

Not so much knowledge, but awareness.  Human history shows a common tendency to be aware that we have a spiritual presence which will transcend the death of the human body.

[Maeght]

Not so much knowledge, but awareness.  Human history shows a common tendency to be aware that we have a spiritual presence which will transcend the death of the human body.

To believe - not to be aware of.

[Outrider]

It is only nonsensical when you try to see it from a materialist viewpoint.

It's nonsensical to try to see it from any other viewpoint unless you have a reason to do so, and so far that's been spectacularly absent.

It makes perfect sense to realise that your free will eminates from the self awareness of the spiritual soul which perceives and interacts with human brain cells.  No other explanation makes any sense to me.

You're using an unevidenced assertion - souls - to try to explain another evidenced assertion - free will - that doesn't make any sense in the first place. When you couple that to the fact that the extremely successful materialist methodology can both adequately explain the phenomenon that we do perceive, and supply evidence to support that explanation, your idea of 'perfect sense' becomes at best questionable.

O.

[Outrider]

It is the convoluted attempt to answer my question which proves my point

You keep saying that it hasn't answered your questions, but you've not explained why except to say that you don't personally like the answer.

O.

[Alan Burns]

Just because some people wish to believe in an afterlife doesn't mean that one exists.

Posters on this thread have implied that in order to satisfy the rules of determinism all our thoughts must be derived in some way from previous events and experiences.  So where does the idea of an afterlife, common throughout humanity, come from?  To wish for an afterlife you first need some insight to know that it exists.

[torridon]

The soul is not of this universe, its true home is in heaven as we understand from biblical revelations.

So what is it doing here then ?  Surely it would be better off in heaven rather than being sentenced to spend a few decades in a material body ?

[Alan Burns]

You keep saying that it hasn't answered your questions, but you've not explained why except to say that you don't personally like the answer.

O.

There is no way that chemical activity in the brain can be translated into human awareness apart from the circumstantial evidence that it occurs.  To say that chemical activity alone is awareness explains nothing to me.

The insights God has given me into my spiritual nature seem perfectly natural to me.  Trying to explain this to a non believer is a bit like trying to explain the concept of love to someone who has never experienced it.

[Alan Burns]

So what is it doing here then ?  Surely it would be better off in heaven rather than being sentenced to spend a few decades in a material body ?

I do not know why things are as they are.  I just accept the reality as I see it. 

[Shaker]

Posters on this thread have implied that in order to satisfy the rules of determinism all our thoughts must be derived in some way from previous events and experiences.  So where does the idea of an afterlife, common throughout humanity, come from?  To wish for an afterlife you first need some insight to know that it exists.

No, you don't, actually.

[Outrider]

Posters on this thread have implied that in order to satisfy the rules of determinism all our thoughts must be derived in some way from previous events and experiences.  So where does the idea of an afterlife, common throughout humanity, come from?  To wish for an afterlife you first need some insight to know that it exists.

No, you have life, you have an awareness that life will end and the fear that goes with it, so you conjecture possible ways to avoid that fear.

O.

[Outrider]

There is no way that chemical activity in the brain can be translated into human awareness apart from the circumstantial evidence that it occurs.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

To say that chemical activity alone is awareness explains nothing to me.

That says more about the chemical activity that's already happened in your brain to shape it than it does about the general possibilities of the process.

The insights God has given me into my spiritual nature seem perfectly natural to me.

It feels like God - how have you verified that?

Trying to explain this to a non believer is a bit like trying to explain the concept of love to someone who has never experienced it.

No, we all have preconceptions that, at various times, we've had to challenge. The specific details aren't that relevant, we all have an internal reality that is an imperfect impression of the probable external reality.

O.

[Shaker]

No, you have life, you have an awareness that life will end and the fear that goes with it, so you conjecture possible ways to avoid that fear.

O.

That fear, I might add, being an evolutionarily advantageous adaptation.

[torridon]

So what is it doing here then ?  Surely it would be better off in heaven rather than being sentenced to spend a few decades in a material body ?

I do not know why things are as they are.  I just accept the reality my fantasy as I see it.

FIFY

[ekim]

I do not know why things are as they are.  I just accept the reality as I see it.

From a Christian perspective, perhaps it is to invoke the Heavenly state into the physical realm ..... Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.  Part of the problem of communicating your belief is that you do not define the terms you use e.g. 'spiritual presence' and 'soul'

[Maeght]

There is no way that chemical activity in the brain can be translated into human awareness apart from the circumstantial evidence that it occurs.  To say that chemical activity alone is awareness explains nothing to me.

That's not an explanation why - just a restatement of your beliefs.

[torridon]

There is no way that chemical activity in the brain can be translated into human awareness apart from the circumstantial evidence that it occurs.  To say that chemical activity alone is awareness explains nothing to me.

The evidence that conscious awareness and neural activity in parts of the brain are one and the same thing is not merely circumstantial,  it is strong.  We know that the recticular activating system is responsible for generating conscious awareness and this is present in all vertebrates that appear to possess some form of consciousness; in particular the structure known as the periaquaductal grey is essential, damage that, and all consciousness is immediately lost.  'Mind' is the subjective aspect of a brain. 'Mind' is what it feels like if you are a brain.

[Alan Burns]

The evidence that conscious awareness and neural activity in parts of the brain are one and the same thing is not merely circumstantial,  it is strong.  We know that the recticular activating system is responsible for generating conscious awareness and this is present in all vertebrates that appear to possess some form of consciousness; in particular the structure known as the periaquaductal grey is essential, damage that, and all consciousness is immediately lost.  'Mind' is the subjective aspect of a brain. 'Mind' is what it feels like if you are a brain.

My understanding is that the brain cells are just messengers.  If you damage the brain cells the message will be lost or distorted, but the recipient of the message still exists.

[Outrider]

My understanding is that the brain cells are just messengers.

Individually, not even that - each neuron is a binary status, it conveys a singular element of a thought.

If you damage the brain cells the message will be lost or distorted, but the recipient of the message still exists.

What 'recipient' is this? Neurons activate other neurons - either in the brain, or as part of the nervous system.

O.

[torridon]

The evidence that conscious awareness and neural activity in parts of the brain are one and the same thing is not merely circumstantial,  it is strong.  We know that the recticular activating system is responsible for generating conscious awareness and this is present in all vertebrates that appear to possess some form of consciousness; in particular the structure known as the periaquaductal grey is essential, damage that, and all consciousness is immediately lost.  'Mind' is the subjective aspect of a brain. 'Mind' is what it feels like if you are a brain.

My understanding is that the brain cells are just messengers.  If you damage the brain cells the message will be lost or distorted, but the recipient of the message still exists.

So in the case of an antelope experiencing conscious awareness via the same sort of neural activity in its identical (to human) reticular activating system, who or what is the recipient of the 'messages' ?

[Sebastian Toe]

Not so much knowledge, but awareness.  Human history shows a common tendency to be aware that we have a spiritual presence which will transcend the death of the human body.

Will that awareness be present in a sad case of a baby who dies minutes after being born?

[Alan Burns]

Individually, not even that - each neuron is a binary status, it conveys a singular element of a thought.

What 'recipient' is this? Neurons activate other neurons - either in the brain, or as part of the nervous system.

O.

There is no physical recipient in the brain, because it can't be defined in physical terms.  All the brain can do is store and pass information via the cells.  The recipient of the information is a single entity of awareness which perceives the information in numerous brain cells.   The pixels on a screen do not perceive themselves - the picture on the screen can only be perceived by an outside observer.  To perceive the binary content of many brain cells, you need something other than another group of brain cells.

[Nearly Sane]

Ah the infinity of homunculi.

[Alan Burns]

My understanding is that the brain cells are just messengers.  If you damage the brain cells the message will be lost or distorted, but the recipient of the message still exists.


So in the case of an antelope experiencing conscious awareness via the same sort of neural activity in its identical (to human) reticular activating system, who or what is the recipient of the 'messages' ?

We can't say whether the antelope actually perceives brain activity, or just reacts to it as in a biological robot.

[Alan Burns]

Will that awareness be present in a sad case of a baby who dies minutes after being born?

I would assume that the soul of the baby will have full awareness of heaven, and a retrospective awareness of its short life on earth.

Some witnesses of near death experiences report meeting the souls of aborted or miscarried babies in heaven.