Searching for GOD...

[Gonnagle]

Dear Shaker,

On a scale of 0 to 10, where 0 is just about impossible and 10 is as good as certain, how likely do you consider that prospect to be?

I have a fascination for small words ( little things mean a lot ) love, hate, time, small words, for me, are usually the most powerful, most thought provoking, time, I doubt that Alan has enough time to convert you but I applaud him for trying ( try, if at first you don't suck seed ) anyway, little things mean a lot, to have heard you admit to a "natural pagan soul" that will do for me soul, another small word.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

I doubt that Alan has enough time to convert you but I applaud him for trying ( try, if at first you don't suck seed )

Alan has obviously never heard of, or at least has never heeded, that wise old maxim: "If at first you don't succeed, give up - there's no sense in being a bloody fool about it."

[Alan Burns]

On a scale of 0 to 10, where 0 is just about impossible and 10 is as good as certain, how likely do you consider that prospect to be?

In your case I would have to say zero, but with God's help anything is possible 

[Shaker]

I have no need of that hypothesis

[Outrider]

I doubt that Alan has enough time to convert you but I applaud him for trying ( try, if at first you don't suck seed )

This one's put down to one of your favourites, Gonners, Mr Einstein, though I think that's not actually proven...

"Insanity is doing the same thing as before, but expecting different results..."

O.

[Alan Burns]

Alan has obviously never heard of, or at least has never heeded, that wise old maxim: "If at first you don't succeed, give up - there's no sense in being a bloody fool about it."

I am glad William Wilberforce and his Christian colleagues did not heed such advice in their efforts to abolish slavery.

[Shaker]

I am glad William Wilberforce and his Christian colleagues did not heed such advice in their efforts to abolish slavery.

Except that they were in with a chance of doing that (and didn't rely on bald assertion and logical fallacy either) 

[Alan Burns]

(and didn't rely on bald assertion and logical fallacy either) 

Neither do I   

[SusanDoris]

AB

Try and change adults' minds is just about okay because they should be sensible enough to take no notice, but try and indoctrinate or inculcate in children such beliefs, then no way is that the right thing for them in this day and age. That would be  showing them how to waste precious learning time in pursuit of an ever-elusive and, in fact, non-existent shadow.

[Shaker]

Neither do I   

None so blind ...

[floo]

Because there must be something funny about a person who don't like alcohol.

Why? One of my daughters has never liked the taste of alcohol, or tea and coffee for that matter, nothing wrong with that!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Outrider,

"Insanity is doing the same thing as before, but expecting different results..."

I think we can both give the great man that one

And yes I have asked our Alan to look inward before he then looks outward, his tactics in conversion are very tame, very last century, sorry Alan, you are a very nice man, a good Christian, that shines out in your posts, but we must stand up to the wrongs in Christianity, you might then ( although with our Shaker ) see more joining in Our Lords message.

Gonnagle.

[Outrider]

I think we can both give the great man that one

And yes I have asked our Alan to look inward before he then looks outward, his tactics in conversion are very tame, very last century, sorry Alan, you are a very nice man, a good Christian, that shines out in your posts, but we must stand up to the wrongs in Christianity, you might then ( although with our Shaker ) see more joining in Our Lords message.

Gonnagle.

I think it's not so much methods as his goals. You appear to want people to convert in the sense that they act more Christian - love they neighbour - whereas he (and others) appear to want more people to accept the idea that Jesus and God are real, as though that were the important part.

O.

[Alan Burns]

I think it's not so much methods as his goals. You appear to want people to convert in the sense that they act more Christian - love they neighbour - whereas he (and others) appear to want more people to accept the idea that Jesus and God are real, as though that were the important part.

We have to recognise that the ultimate goal of Christian teaching is not just to love thy neighbour (though that is an important part of it), but to accept the reality of Jesus Christ as your saviour.  Acting in a Christian like way is ultimately just a secular goal.

[ad_orientem]

Why? One of my daughters has never liked the taste of alcohol, or tea and coffee for that matter, nothing wrong with that!

As I said, I don't trust anyone that doesn't drink. Also you can measure a person through having a drink with them.

[Outrider]

We have to recognise that the ultimate goal of Christian teaching is not just to love thy neighbour (though that is an important part of it), but to accept the reality of Jesus Christ as your saviour.  Acting in a Christian like way is ultimately just a secular goal.

You believe that your God is a good being, yes? Do you think he would judge unkindly people who were decent, honest, caring people just because he'd succeeded in his attempts to hide himself?

Would you not be improving the attitude of people and the world at large - and doing God's work - if you helped EVERYONE to be better people?

Would the people you are trying to reach not be more inclined to pay attention if they could see that the focus of Christians was not on mysticism but rather on trying to improve the lot of the people they can see around them?

I appreciate that a huge number of Christians - and believers of other faiths - do a lot of good work in this area already, as do non-believers. Why this fixation with accepting an unevidenced claim rather than on actually making things demonstrably better?

O.

[Outrider]

As I said, I don't trust anyone that doesn't drink. Also you can measure a person through having a drink with them.

You don't trust people who don't drink, but you're willing to accept as true third-hand claims about people rising from the dead... I don't like to dismiss people out of hand, but you really make it difficult!

O.

[ippy]

B A, Sass and I suppose Alan B, you lot and your superstitions?

ippy

[Shaker]

We have to recognise that the ultimate goal of Christian teaching is not just to love thy neighbour (though that is an important part of it), but to accept the reality of Jesus Christ as your saviour.

According to the alleged records he does come across as having a bit of an ego probem, doesn't he?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Outrider,

I think it's not so much methods as his goals. You appear to want people to convert in the sense that they act more Christian - love they neighbour - whereas he (and others) appear to want more people to accept the idea that Jesus and God are real, as though that were the important part.

True, I prefer baby steps.

Dear Alan,

We have to recognise that the ultimate goal of Christian teaching is not just to love thy neighbour (though that is an important part of it),

Most important, do you doubt the words of Our Lord.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Jesus is telling how you perform the first, you follow the second, all the laws, not just bits, all.



Gonnagle.

[ippy]

Quote from: Alan Burns on Today at 12:41:22 PM
We have to recognize that the ultimate goal of Christian teaching is not just to love thy neighbour (though that is an important part of it), but to accept the reality of Jesus Christ as your saviour.  Acting in a Christian like way is ultimately just a secular goal.

You might like to recognize Alan, 'we' don't, your very welcome to your mistaken beliefs.

ippy

[ad_orientem]

You don't trust people who don't drink, but you're willing to accept as true third-hand claims about people rising from the dead... I don't like to dismiss people out of hand, but you really make it difficult!

O.

Third-hand? Two of the Gospels (Matthew and John) are first hand and the other two (Mark and Luke) were companions of those who had encountered the risen Christ.

As for drink, it goes like this: Have a drink with me and I can see what you're made of. Don't, and I'll view you with suspicion. Alcohol is a gift of God to warm the hearts of men.

[Shaker]

I wish it was a gift of the Scottish distilling industry

[Alan Burns]

You believe that your God is a good being, yes? Do you think he would judge unkindly people who were decent, honest, caring people just because he'd succeeded in his attempts to hide himself?

Would you not be improving the attitude of people and the world at large - and doing God's work - if you helped EVERYONE to be better people?

Would the people you are trying to reach not be more inclined to pay attention if they could see that the focus of Christians was not on mysticism but rather on trying to improve the lot of the people they can see around them?

I appreciate that a huge number of Christians - and believers of other faiths - do a lot of good work in this area already, as do non-believers. Why this fixation with accepting an unevidenced claim rather than on actually making things demonstrably better?

O.

The wisdom expressed in the Psalms recognises that our earthly life is merely a breath - we were made for much more than this.  The psalmists also recognise the presence of evil which prevents us from seeing God.  God does not deliberately hide Himself - he became one of us in order to make Himself known to us.  And He suffered torture and death in order to open up a path to eternal salvation, and in order to obtain that salvation we have to accept Jesus Christ as our lifeline.

[Shaker]

What's that you were saying about not relying on bald assertion, Alan?