Searching for GOD...

[Shaker]

Pretty sure it's just you, Vladdychops

[ippy]

Is it just me or can anyone else hear a clunking, grinding or groaning when they read that back?

Do you mean something like when you read so many posts full of wriggling, pathetic, groundless, all based on some sort of holier than thou self deceptive nonsense?

Yes, I thought so.

ippy 

[Dicky Underpants]

This suggests that only things which are established/demonstrated are true. That it is the establishment of something that endows it with reality.
I don't think the universe, let alone the almighty, has ever operated in that manner.

As Wittgenstein might have said, although I haven't established it yet, I thing you have reasoned yourself intra rectally.

And again, as Wittgenstein nearly said "Wenn man hat nichts zu sprechen, dann muss dieser Arschloch schweigen"

[Alan Burns]

I dare say you no longer think of Sooty in the same way?

What are you implying about Sooty?   

[Bubbles]

I understand Sooty felt he could no longer endorse Shaker's views.

Yes I liked Sooty too.

It made Shaker look cute   

[ippy]

What are you implying about Sooty?   

Good to see at least you've managed to keep a hold of your sense of humour Alan.

I don't see anything deep in the stuff of nonsense you're into, that's why I prefer to not feed any preponderency of yours to think there is anything to your beliefs by discussing them as though they held anything of merit.

Ippy

[Gonnagle]

Dear ippy,

preponderency

eh!!

preponderancy!!

eh!!

To stop Gonnagle being confused with big words sign up to, www.we hate big words. com

Who is the worst offender, I nominate, Shakers, appurtenance.

Gonnagle.

[ippy]

Dear ippy,
eh!!
eh!!

To stop Gonnagle being confused with big words sign up to, www.we hate big words. com

Who is the worst offender, I nominate, Shakers, appurtenance.

Gonnagle.

Hi Gonners sorry about the big word I probably haven't got the spelling right I wrote it out on my tablet without the help of spell check.

I have a job spelling my own name without it, well near enough.

ippy

P S just looked it up I was right, I was wrong, the big word should have read "preponderance", I wondered if you were hinting, so if you were, you were right to do so, be surprised when I get all of my spellings right.

ippy   

[Outrider]

An outside observer would not be able to differentiate.

Fine, but how does the 'insider' decide that it's 'God' and not 'subconscious'?

Doing God's work is discerned personally through prayer.  In my own case I sometimes get called to do something I would not personally choose on my own.

What makes you think you have so much higher a degree of self-awareness than anyone else? I'd suspect pretty much all of us get strange urges at times, we don't presume we're touched by God though.

O.

[Alan Burns]

Fine, but how does the 'insider' decide that it's 'God' and not 'subconscious'?

What makes you think you have so much higher a degree of self-awareness than anyone else? I'd suspect pretty much all of us get strange urges at times, we don't presume we're touched by God though.

O.

I can only explain it through the power of prayer.  If you can pray with faith for guidance, God will give you guidance.  I personally have to beware of doing things spontaneously, thinking they are good and therefore inspired by God, but on prayerful reflection I often find it is not what God wants me to do.  It is all down to the power of prayer.

[Outrider]

I can only explain it through the power of prayer.  If you can pray with faith for guidance, God will give you guidance.  I personally have to beware of doing things spontaneously, thinking they are good and therefore inspired by God, but on prayerful reflection I often find it is not what God wants me to do.  It is all down to the power of prayer.

If you're praying, though, you're already setting your expectation that God is there and might have something for you - you're already searching, and you're already predisposed to presume that any inclination you get is God's will.

You appear to simply take it on faith that this is God speaking, and you're happy with that, and that's great, and it doesn't impact on anyone else in the main, I'd guess. Unfortunately, as a system, that's exactly what Islamic suicide bombers do - and it's uncontestable. You've already decided that a) it's God, and b) God is unquestionable.

That's why a religious mindset worries me - I'm presuming you don't think the urge to blow yourself up in a crowd is actually God's will, but those people are just as certain as you, on exactly the same evidence.

How do you know, given that other people with the same process are fooling themselves into think that they're finding God, that you genuinely are?

O.

[torridon]

I can only explain it through the power of prayer.  If you can pray with faith for guidance, God will give you guidance.  I personally have to beware of doing things spontaneously, thinking they are good and therefore inspired by God, but on prayerful reflection I often find it is not what God wants me to do.  It is all down to the power of prayer.

Maybe the real benefit of prayer is actually the benefit of meditation; getting in touch with deeper aspects of your own self.  That would seem to explain why prayer seems to 'work' for some people and not for others, and how the outcomes vary with time and place and cultural expectation.  The alternate theory that you are in reality communing with an external invisible being through some kind of secret telepathy channel seems seriously whacko to me, not much different to the claims of people who think they are being abducted by aliens at night. There is more likely a rational explanation for extraordinary claims, and they are usually found in the curious bye-ways of human mind.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do you mean something like when you read so many posts full of wriggling, pathetic, groundless, all based on some sort of holier than thou self deceptive nonsense?

Yes, I thought so.

ippy

So Ippy......if I get this straight. ''Religion is bollocks....why can't people see it?''

[floo]

If the deity exists, hears prayers and can respond to them in a positive way, it goes to prove if proof were needed, that it enjoys playing psychopathic games with humans!

[Alan Burns]

If you're praying, though, you're already setting your expectation that God is there and might have something for you - you're already searching, and you're already predisposed to presume that any inclination you get is God's will.

You appear to simply take it on faith that this is God speaking, and you're happy with that, and that's great, and it doesn't impact on anyone else in the main, I'd guess. Unfortunately, as a system, that's exactly what Islamic suicide bombers do - and it's uncontestable. You've already decided that a) it's God, and b) God is unquestionable.

That's why a religious mindset worries me - I'm presuming you don't think the urge to blow yourself up in a crowd is actually God's will, but those people are just as certain as you, on exactly the same evidence.

How do you know, given that other people with the same process are fooling themselves into think that they're finding God, that you genuinely are?

O.

You seem to overlook the possibility that God does exist, that He made Himself known through Jesus, and that we can communicate with God through prayer.

[Shaker]

You seem to overlook the possibility that God does exist, that He made Himself known through Jesus, and that we can communicate with God through prayer.

Not so much that it's overlooked as ignored until and unless somebody comes up with some good reasons for us to consider it to be what William James called a live option - a serious, potentially true possibility. I'll listen patiently and attentively to any case anybody cares to make but I've yet to see any of them pass muster and have seen many more on the opposite side.

[Shaker]

I can only explain it through the power of prayer.  If you can pray with faith for guidance, God will give you guidance.  I personally have to beware of doing things spontaneously, thinking they are good and therefore inspired by God, but on prayerful reflection I often find it is not what God wants me to do

We often find that what people claim God wants them to do (or not) fits incredibly neatly with their own desires.

[savillerow]

Msg 6090 Shaker. I agree as far as I can see it's all "in house" nothing external going on. And for that observation we need an "open and honest" debate on tv, radio and newspapers about what some people think they know, what they think is true, what they think is rational, what they think is logical, what they think is silly, what they think is plain daft, what they think is dangerous and why they can't answer anything unless they flower it up with gobbledegook. Then we can decide if we've found a god!! . . . . That's got a lot to answer for.

[floo]

We often find that what people claim God wants them to do (or not) fits incredibly neatly with their own desires.

Doesn't it just! As I have mentioned before my late Mother-in-law and the deity were hand in glove, they shared the same  thoughts, even down to which clothes they liked and which TV programmes they both enjoyed!

[ippy]

So Ippy......if I get this straight. ''Religion is bollocks....why can't people see it?''

Unfortunately Vlad it's a tendency of delusional people to be offended, no matter which way anyone challenges their favourite delusion, such as reminding them that it's a load of pathetic, groundless stuff, all based on some sort of holier than thou self deceptive nonsense?

So even though you think we are wrong, referring to religion as delusional nonsense or saying, ''Religion is bollocks....why can't people see it?'' is much the same thing but even then Vlad I think you'd have to admit it's far better if, we atheists as you refer to us, tell you the truth.

ippy
 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Unfortunately Vlad it's a tendency of delusional people to be offended, no matter which way anyone challenges their favourite delusion, such as reminding them that it's a load of pathetic, groundless stuff, all based on some sort of holier than thou self deceptive nonsense?

So even though you think we are wrong, referring to religion as delusional nonsense or saying, ''Religion is bollocks....why can't people see it?'' is much the same thing but even then Vlad I think you'd have to admit it's far better if, we atheists as you refer to us, tell you the truth.

ippy

I am not in the least offended by what you say though I do feel pity for people like your self who have never questioned anything you were brought up to believe or disbelieve.

[floo]

I am not in the least offended by what you say though I do feel pity for people like your self who have never questioned anything you were brought up to believe or disbelieve.

Like you?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Like you?

Nope I converted in my twenties.

[ippy]

I am not in the least offended by what you say though I do feel pity for people like your self who have never questioned anything you were brought up to believe or disbelieve.

Disbelieve in what?

ippy

[Gonnagle]

Dear ippy,

The Truth on you go then, let me read The Truth but I suspect it will only be Your Truth.

True and truth, two more small but very powerful words, unlike the word "encomiums"

a speech or piece of writing that praises someone or something highly.

I doubt I will ever have a use for the word "encomiums" but the word truth, well we all search for that.

http://www.philosophynews.com/post/2015/01/29/What-is-Truth.aspx

Truth, like knowledge, is surprisingly difficult to define. We seem to rely on it almost every moment of every day and it's very "close" to us. Yet it's difficult to define because as soon as you think you have it pinned down, some case or counterexample immediately shows deficiencies. Ironically, every definition of truth that philosophers have developed falls prey to the question, "Is it true?"

Gonnagle.