Searching for GOD...

[Sassy]

But that won't stop Sass stating it as fact!

Again the woman cannot even understand the post being a reply to her.
Guess you will always get things wrong whilst you lack understanding.

[Sassy]

The flipping deity needs to confess its evil deeds and apologise for them, no human is or has been, as bad as it, should it really exist!

It is amazing how loving he is.. He allows you the freedom to speak and believe as you do. Why should he apologise for your freedom and the freedom of those from the past to speak and act as they wish?

You know that what you say and do are accountable for,
Surely you don't believe you are not responsible for your words and actions?

For Ippy and Floo.

Read and see where you both went wrong.

[Alan Burns]

Yet again we can see the operation of selection bias at work; you seek out ancedotal testimonies of people who have converted from Islam to Christianity because these are stories that will confirm your beliefs; whilst ignoring the personal testimonies of people, far greater in number, that convert from Christianity to Islam.

Yes, there are many testimonies of those who have "converted" from Christianity to Islam - mainly driven by fear of their lives or by being forced to pay extra taxes.

[Alan Burns]

You can't save things that don't exist in the first place.  And even if they did, I don't believe you have any such power, that would lie with God. If God wants to save a 'soul' presumably he would do so, being a God. If he doesn't want to save a 'soul', then he won't.

Yes, it is God who saves souls.  And He clearly tells us in the message of the Gospels that in order to enable Him to save our soul we need to accept Jesus as our saviour.

[Sassy]

The reason why I lost my faith was because it was never real to begin with. I'm happy for you that you have your path; it's a shame that you can't be happy that I have mine.

So you pretended? Truth is you never bore fruit.
What is real? Are you saying Christ was not real or the things he did?
Tell me why Christ with all his power would allow himself to be put to death if it wasn't real?

Your excuse for your actions are no different to Satan telling Eve she would become like God if she ate the fruit and he was keeping it from her.
What you and Eve wanted was different from the will of God for her and for you.
Of course you feel a sense of relief. You chose to go your own way and that is what you did... CHOSE yourself over the truth.

[Sassy]

Don't forget Outrider, Alan gets brownie points for believing in this christian idea for something they refer to as god, and even more points if these believers allow themselves to remain completely taken in, even when they know there's zero evidence that could support these ideas about their god thing.

Good luck to him, as long as he doesn't try to pollute the minds of very young children with his nonsense.

ippy

Okay! Let's put that theory to the test.

Explain your brownie point system seeing you say it exists...

[torridon]

Yes, there are many testimonies of those who have "converted" from Christianity to Islam - mainly driven by fear of their lives or by being forced to pay extra taxes.

There may be some truth in that in some parts of the world where extremist theologies are the norm. I don't think that applies everywhere though; in the UK for instance where we have a principle for tolerance and pluralism most christians converting to islam are not doing so out of fear or other such pressures, but because that is their faith journey,  that is where their 'search for God' has taken them.

[Sassy]

Yes, there are many testimonies of those who have "converted" from Christianity to Islam - mainly driven by fear of their lives or by being forced to pay extra taxes.

You cannot love both God and money.

[torridon]

Yes, it is God who saves souls.  And He clearly tells us in the message of the Gospels that in order to enable Him to save our soul we need to accept Jesus as our saviour.

This makes no sense though.  A god who genuinely wanted to save 'souls' would not put them at risk in the first place.

[Alan Burns]

There may be some truth in that in some parts of the world where extremist theologies are the norm. I don't think that applies everywhere though; in the UK for instance where we have a principle for tolerance and pluralism most christians converting to islam are not doing so out of fear or other such pressures, but because that is their faith journey,  that is where their 'search for God' has taken them.

I do know of some who have been attracted to the Muslim faith because of its adherence to traditional moral values.  The increasing moral decadence of modern western society is not attractive to people who recognise that we were born with a natural morality which is being eroded.  Some liberal wings of the Christian churches are also guilty in this respect.  God has given us a moral code which enables us to live happily as He intended us to.  Promiscuity is not a recipe for happiness.

[Alan Burns]

This makes no sense though.  A god who genuinely wanted to save 'souls' would not put them at risk in the first place.

It is Satan who puts us at risk, and from whom we need to be saved.

[Gordon]

It is Satan who puts us at risk, and from whom we need to be saved.

Surely your God could have avoided this problem by simply not creating 'Satan' in the first place.

[torridon]

I do know of some who have been attracted to the Muslim faith because of its adherence to traditional moral values.  The increasing moral decadence of modern western society is not attractive to people who recognise that we were born with a natural morality which is being eroded.  Some liberal wings of the Christian churches are also guilty in this respect.  God has given us a moral code which enables us to live happily as He intended us to.  Promiscuity is not a recipe for happiness.

Hmm, so much to unpack in that. Agreed, in my experience, moral conservatism is a defining characteristic of much contemporary islamic sentiment.  I'd agree also, that we are born with an innate disposition to develop a sense of moral conscience. I don't see that God gave us a moral code to act as framework for our innate conscience though as there is no evidence for gods. Rather, societies have developed notions of god as early explanatory frameworks for Man's existence and these notions evolve and become culturally embedded along with the 'rules' that God has allegedy given.  Thus the cultural moral framework within islamic societies has points of contact with those of other religions, but there are also differences, and most religions 'of the book' are largely defined by the particular cultural norms of the time and place of their inception.

[torridon]

It is Satan who puts us at risk, and from whom we need to be saved.

Yeah, well God can do that if he wants.  That comes with omnipotence dontcha know

[floo]

It is amazing how loving he is.. He allows you the freedom to speak and believe as you do. Why should he apologise for your freedom and the freedom of those from the past to speak and act as they wish?

You know that what you say and do are accountable for,
Surely you don't believe you are not responsible for your words and actions?

For Ippy and Floo.

Read and see where you both went wrong.

And you are never wrong are you Sass? At least the thing you do right is compose posts which are guaranteed to make me giggle. You can't say that about the posts of your soul mate! 

[Rhiannon]

My motive has nothing to do with brownie points.  I am driven by a genuine desire to help other people to discover the Good News of salvation.  It is about saving souls.

I don't agree with all the saving souls business, obviously, but I have to agree I've not come across many Christians who do good stuff to earn any kind of heavenly bonus.

[torridon]

Yes, it is God who saves souls.  And He clearly tells us in the message of the Gospels that in order to enable Him to save our soul we need to accept Jesus as our saviour.

This makes no sense.   If there is a god and he is good and humans need saving then he would save humans.  End of story.   No fear, no favour, no attached conditions; in contrast the god you seem to favour falls so far short of being benevolent, favouring only his acolytes.

[Alan Burns]

Surely your God could have avoided this problem by simply not creating 'Satan' in the first place.

God created beings with free will.  He did not want puppets or robots.

[Shaker]

God created beings with free will.  He did not want puppets or robots.

Seems to have ended up with plenty of both, however.

[Outrider]

I do realise that people of other faiths may also claim to have found the true God, but I can quote the personal testimonies of several Muslims who have had the courage and conviction to convert to Christianity.

And, equally, I'd suggest that there are a number of converts from Christianity to other faiths, who are equally devout, and equally convinced that they now have the right idea.

It is very difficult for a Muslim to convert because of the fear of being rejected by their own family and community.

It's very difficult for anyone from a strict religious community, and they exist in any number of different denominations.

One person in particular was a very devout Muslim who out of curiosity started reading the New Testament.  He was not pressurised by any evangelical preacher - he simply discovered God's love by prayerful reading of the Christian Bible which depicted a loving God which is not there in the Koran.

OK. How many anecdotes will turn this into a fact? How many of these individual subjective accounts will mean that they stop being subjective? How many conversions each way are required for it to be suddenly objectively true?

Why is it that you think the idea of conversions to Christianity validate the idea of Christianity and not that the idea of conversions validates belief being independent of the trappings of names?

O.

[Shaker]

And, equally, I'd suggest that there are a number of converts from Christianity to other faiths, who are equally devout, and equally convinced that they now have the right idea.

I call it the "I'm Spartacus" school of religion.

[Alan Burns]

This makes no sense.   If there is a god and he is good and humans need saving then he would save humans.  End of story.   No fear, no favour, no attached conditions; in contrast the god you seem to favour falls so far short of being benevolent, favouring only his acolytes.

The alternative you suggest makes no sense to me.  If we are given everything we need with no conditions we would inevitably become self centred beings with no need for love and compassion.

[Shaker]

Why "inevitably" Alan?

[Alan Burns]

Why is it that you think the idea of conversions to Christianity validate the idea of Christianity
O.

The conversions alone do not validate Christianity.  Christianity is validated first and foremost by knowing message of the Gospels and living this message.

[Alan Burns]

Why "inevitably" Alan?

Just try giving a child everything they want with no conditions and see the result. (Dudley Dursley comes to mind).