Searching for GOD...

[Shaker]

Just try giving a child everything they want with no conditions and see the result. (Dudley Dursley comes to mind).

Why is it absolutely no surprise to me that you have to invoke another fictional character to shore up your "argument", Al?

[torridon]

The alternative you suggest makes no sense to me.  If we are given everything we need with no conditions we would inevitably become self centred beings with no need for love and compassion.

Eh ? Maybe we got some wires crossed, I hadn't suggested any alternatives, I was merely pointing out the contradiction within your position, that of an allegedly benevolent god but one who in reality only rewards his acolytes.  Nothing to do with love and compassion, those are human universals.

[Outrider]

The alternative you suggest makes no sense to me.  If we are given everything we need with no conditions we would inevitably become self-centred beings with no need for love and compassion.

Why? Surely without the struggle to ensure our survival we'd have the time and freedom to turn our attentions to other things. Self-centredness is derived from the competition for resources, the battle for survival. If everything were provided evolution wouldn't have favoured those traits and they'd be far less prevalent in humanity, if they remained at all.

O.

[Alan Burns]

Why is it absolutely no surprise to me that you have to invoke another fictional character to shore up your "argument", Al?

Unfortunately I do know of some real-life "Dudley's"
Perhaps you can think of some you may know?

[Shaker]

Unfortunately I do know of some real-life "Dudley's"
Perhaps you can think of some you may know?

No.

[Alan Burns]

Why? Surely without the struggle to ensure our survival we'd have the time and freedom to turn our attentions to other things. Self-centredness is derived from the competition for resources, the battle for survival. If everything were provided evolution wouldn't have favoured those traits and they'd be far less prevalent in humanity, if they remained at all.

O.

No doubt we can all think up some imaginary conditions which God could have set in order to make things better (in our opinion), but I personally concede that I do not know the big picture and ultimately put my trust in God's infinite love.

[Shaker]

Quite a selective, hit and miss sort of "love" though isn't it?

[Outrider]

No doubt we can all think up some imaginary conditions which God could have set in order to make things better (in our opinion), but I personally concede that I do not know the big picture and ultimately put my trust in God's infinite love.

Whereas I concede that I don't know that there is a 'big picture', so I put my trust in the things that I can verify, and work to improve them.

O.

[torridon]

No doubt we can all think up some imaginary conditions which God could have set in order to make things better (in our opinion), but I personally concede that I do not know the big picture and ultimately put my trust in God's infinite love.

A God with infinite love would love everyone, though, not just christians.

[Alan Burns]

Quite a selective, hit and miss sort of "love" though isn't it?

Not according to the Bible,

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16

[Alan Burns]

A God with infinite love would love everyone, though, not just christians.

Of course God loves everyone.  But love is a two way thing - If we do not reciprocate God's love, the relationship is not complete.

[Shaker]

Not according to the Bible,

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16

I'm not referring to the Bible, which is an irrelevance. I'm referring to the experience of human beings in everyday life - your friend Becky, for instance.

[ippy]

Not according to the Bible,

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16

This lot's all very well for the likes of you Alan, the only trouble with this vacuous statement of yours is the very minor point of accreditation, something that no one has ever managed to establish, another very minor point the veracity of the original source of these words. 

Just on odds alone it's very unlikely that there's a grain of truth in any of it Alan, especially the coming back from the dead bit, good stories, but that's about it really.

ippy

[ippy]

My motive has nothing to do with brownie points.  I am driven by a genuine desire to help other people to discover the Good News of salvation.  It is about saving souls.

More cloud Cuckoo land Alan, there's no evidence that would even suggest such a thing as a soul, other than inside your imagination.

ippy

[torridon]

Of course God loves everyone.  But love is a two way thing - If we do not reciprocate God's love, the relationship is not complete.

You are contradicting yourself.  If God resurrects only christians then he is excluding most people from his love. Your god is not benevolent, he is exclusivist.

[2Corrie]

You are contradicting yourself.  If God resurrects only christians then he is excluding most people from his love. Your god is not benevolent, he is exclusivist.

Just a technicality but actually the Bible states that everyone will be resurrected. The difference will be an eternity in relationship with God or an eternity outside of that relationship.

[Shaker]

Just a technicality but actually the Bible states that everyone will be resurrected. The difference will be an eternity in relationship with God or an eternity outside of that relationship.

Will atheists even notice?

[BashfulAnthony]

Of course NOTHING! That is what you want to believe without any evidence to back it up. As has been said many times, the Bible doesn't portray a loving deity!

Said your prayers yet today?

[ekim]

What arrogance and what pitfalls?
You see that answer does not make sense. How does someone having a personal relationship with God become spiritual arrogance? What are the pitfalls.
If your honest you just said those words because you could not bear to hear the truth that someone has a personal relationship with God.
These things happen when people have something others do not and where opinion differs. Look at Acts 7 where Stephen said:


51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

then it comes to this:-


55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

There are no spiritual pitfalls or arrogance in telling the truth.
But the reality is that those who cannot bear to hear the truth attack those telling it. It fits more aptly doesn't it.

Tell me Ekim where do you see yourself in the above?

1)If you look at the quote from Alan in my reply you will see that I have italicised the part of it I was replying to.  To declare that followers of other religions do not experience the real presence of God compared to Christians, borders on arrogance.  'One true way ism' and a 'holier than thou' attitude is a form of religious egotism.  The pitfalls of this are megalomania and despotism leading to despising others rather than the humility implied in 'love thy neighbour as thyself'.

2)I am indifferent to those who claim to have a personal relationship with their God, especially if I have never met those persons and they appear to be unable to describe their God.  I would, however, expect them to be able to express that personal relationship directly and without recourse to multiple second hand quotations from ancient scriptures.

[ippy]

1)If you look at the quote from Alan in my reply you will see that I have italicised the part of it I was replying to.  To declare that followers of other religions do not experience the real presence of God compared to Christians, borders on arrogance.  'One true way ism' and a 'holier than thou' attitude is a form of religious egotism.  The pitfalls of this are megalomania and despotism leading to despising others rather than the humility implied in 'love thy neighbour as thyself'.

2)I am indifferent to those who claim to have a personal relationship with their God, especially if I have never met those persons and they appear to be unable to describe their God.  I would, however, expect them to be able to express that personal relationship directly and without recourse to multiple second hand quotations from ancient scriptures.

Good post.

ippy

[Alan Burns]

there's no evidence that would even suggest such a thing as a soul, other than inside your imagination.

You may be close to the truth - for I believe your soul drives your imagination.

[Shaker]

You may be close to the truth - for I believe your soul drives your imagination.

Vice versa seems far more probable.

[Alan Burns]

Vice versa seems far more probable.

So what drives your imagination?
What is at the source of everything you do or say?
In essence, what makes you "you"?
It is much more than a few electrons buzzing round in your head!

[Gordon]

So what drives your imagination?
What is at the source of everything you do or say?
In essence, what makes you "you"?
It is much more than a few electrons buzzing round in your head!

It is just our evolved biology to date, Alan, nothing more and nothing less.

[Alan Burns]

I'm not referring to the Bible, which is an irrelevance. I'm referring to the experience of human beings in everyday life - your friend Becky, for instance.

God loves Becky more than any of us - Her husband, Andrew, is aware of this as he has shown in his postings.  Andrew's faith is stronger than ever, and he is a shining example of how God's love gives us the strength to endure whatever comes to us in our earthly life.  Without his faith he would not have been able to cope with this crisis in the way he has.  We should not make judgements based upon the shallow precepts of human logic, for God's love is far greater than anything we can imagine.