Searching for GOD...

[torridon]

Most of what are being labelled as assertions or fallacies came into my mind during prayer or while attending holy Mass, so I look upon them as revelations.  And I have found nothing in science or philosophical writings to seriously challenge these "assertions".

Why not ?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do you actually have the first idea what I believe?

Only what I am forced to glean from what is implicit in your posts thanks to your lack of explanatory.

[Gordon]

Most of what are being labelled as assertions or fallacies came into my mind during prayer or while attending holy Mass, so I look upon them as revelations.  And I have found nothing in science or philosophical writings to seriously challenge these "assertions".

Then you need to look a bit harder, Alan, since what pops into your mind whilst involved in religious worship probably isn't the most reliable approach to understanding reality.

[Rhiannon]

Only what I am forced to glean from what is implicit in your posts thanks to your lack of explanatory.

I don't actually feel the need to explain anything to you. But if you want to know you could try asking.

[floo]

Then you need to look a bit harder, Alan, since what pops into your mind whilst involved in religious worship probably isn't the most reliable approach to understanding reality.

Religious worship and the feelings expressed by people caught up in the moment is possibly similar to that of the adulation expressed by fans who attend a pop concert. Having never felt that sort of emotion I find it hard to understand.

[Outrider]

can I suggest the Black and decker trimmer for that hedge?

If it come with a Vlad-to-English dictionary, I'd strongly recommend you get one.

O.

[Outrider]

As I have said on a previous thread, natural laws are not broken or overidden, but they can be used and manipulated by acts of free will - as aptly demonstrated in both human creativity and God's creativity.

Nobody is suggesting that they are 'broken' or 'over-ridden' - what is being suggested is that they are sufficient to explain the universe, there is no need to add a 'god' to the mix.

O.

[Outrider]

But the gospels depict a God who wants to help those who suffer.

Whilst the Old Testaments depicts a God who wants to smote and destroy on a grand scale for disobedience. Schizophrenic, or actually two different gods?

I cannot accept that God is the cause of human suffering.

Then you either need to deny that God is omniscient, deny that God is the creator or deny that there's human suffering.

There are many factors involved which are simply beyond human understanding.

That's one possibility, perhaps, but there are others - humans do suffer, that's pretty much undeniable. Whilst it's possible that there's a justification that's beyond human understanding in thousands of years of trying, it seems more likely that there's actually no reason to expect reality to give us an easy ride because nobody's out there who's supposed to be looking out for us.

I just put my faith in God's love.

And you're more than welcome to do so, and I hope it brings you as much comfort as it brings you the patience and grace you show here. I'm afraid, though, that your faith isn't reason for anyone else.

O.

[Outrider]

But you will get more information out of a monotheist than a pagan.

Which would be great if any of it were reliable - I'd rather take a pagan's 'I don't know' than the output of the Great Christian Wheel or Assertion of Roulette.

O.

[Outrider]

Only what I am forced to glean from what is implicit in your posts thanks to your lack of explanatory.

Did you hear that...? That was the noise of my next ten thousand irony meters *sproinging* in advance, such was the impact of that 'Hello, Mr Pot? This is Mr Kettle' moment.

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I don't actually feel the need to explain anything to you. But if you want to know you could try asking.

OK so your on here largely to showboat,

[Alan Burns]

How do you distinguish between what you call the actions of a god using humans as its hands, feet, eyes and mouth and just humans with no god doing human things?

By giving us the gifts of free will, conscious awareness and a conscience God has empowered us to do His work.  Whether they believe in Him or not, all humans who do good works are doing it by using God's gifts.

[Alan Burns]

Even if this were right, what you've got is a fallible, weak human god substitute that digs people out of post-earthquake rubble and tries to stop babies dying because of cancer. So let's go back a step to why you think it is logical that a loving God created/allows this stuff in the first place.

I do not pretend to understand everything, but I do know with absolute certainty that we would not exist without God.  And I have come to know God through prayer, scriptures and Christian fellowship.  God's love is real - and I can't find the words to express just how real God's love is.

[jeremyp]

Yes

Native American Proverb: "Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins."

True, because if he gets angry, he's a mile away and he's got no shoes on.

[Alan Burns]

Quote from: Alan Burns on December 15, 2015, 10:21:41 PM

    Most of what are being labelled as assertions or fallacies came into my mind during prayer or while attending holy Mass, so I look upon them as revelations.  And I have found nothing in science or philosophical writings to seriously challenge these "assertions".

Why not ?

The human logic does not come close to the knowledge and wisdom I perceive in the divine revelations.

[Alan Burns]

Then you need to look a bit harder, Alan, since what pops into your mind whilst involved in religious worship probably isn't the most reliable approach to understanding reality.

On the contrary, the profound revelations I get through prayer brings a far greater awareness of reality than I could ever achieve on my own.  You should try it.

[Alan Burns]

In addition to your usual floundering about in an argument from personal incredulity I've begun to realise that you also constantly employ a fallacious argument from authority: where you are your own authority!

But I do not speak from my own authority.
I am just the messenger.

Several months ago I made a big announcement that I had made my last post on this forum.  I felt that I had said everything I had to say and that God wanted me to move on.  But in retrospect I was wanting to quit because it was getting hard for me to endure the negative comments and occasional ridicule that my posts were bringing - in short I had had enough.

But God had other ideas.  He called me back and gave me some very profound and challenging things to say.  I can claim no credit for the thoughts expressed in my posts - I am not a scientist or philosopher.  I am an eleven-plus failure who grew up on a council estate (Thorntree) in Middlesbrough.  I just hope and pray that my posts will achieve whatever God intends them to.

[Outrider]

I do not pretend to understand everything, but I do know with absolute certainty that we would not exist without God.

No, you don't. You believe it with absolute certainty, but in your self-admitted absence of a methodology you can't 'know' it at all.

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, you don't. You believe it with absolute certainty, but in your self-admitted absence of a methodology you can't 'know' it at all.

O.

Rider.......science doesn't do God.

[Outrider]

Rider.......science doesn't do God.

Gardening? That strikes me as being another of you nun's secateurs...

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Gardening? That strikes me as being another of you nun's secateurs...

O.

For a good non sequitur a laddy has just contributed to a board talking about messianic sects and how only one has become a world religion by asking what about all these non messianic sects. I think he said his name was Outrider or something.

[Shaker]

By giving us the gifts of free will

Fervently believed in by you but never actually demonstrated to exist -

conscious awareness

Not fully understood but "Goddunnit" isn't an answer -

and a conscience

Not only explicable but to my mind already explained via primatology and evolutionary psychology.

God has empowered us to do His work.  Whether they believe in Him or not, all humans who do good works are doing it by using God's gifts.

You really are driving the Assertatron into the ground today, Alan.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Fervently believed in by you but never actually demonstrated to exist

has it been demonstrated not to ? I feel a debate about consciousness coming on.

[Shaker]

But I do not speak from my own authority.
I am just the messenger.

Several months ago I made a big announcement that I had made my last post on this forum.  I felt that I had said everything I had to say and that God wanted me to move on.  But in retrospect I was wanting to quit because it was getting hard for me to endure the negative comments and occasional ridicule that my posts were bringing - in short I had had enough.

But God had other ideas.

The Almighty has obviously heard of Shaker's Law

He called me back and gave me some very profound and challenging things to say.

I wish I had seen those posts.

I can claim no credit for the thoughts expressed in my posts - I am not a scientist or philosopher.  I am an eleven-plus failure who grew up on a council estate (Thorntree) in Middlesbrough.  I just hope and pray that my posts will achieve whatever God intends them to.

It seems that your God's intention is for your assertions to be dismissed and your sub-par would-be arguments shredded and turned into small rodent bedding.

Why you might think that would be is something only you can guess at, Al.

[Shaker]

has it been demonstrated not to ? I feel a debate about consciousness coming on.

I don't - I feel a pointing-out of the negative proof fallacy coming on. See Hope for details.