Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3904653 times)

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6475 on: December 19, 2015, 11:34:07 AM »
I,m trying to think of any parallel sentiments I could express being someone who went from secular humanism where God belief was an eccentricity.....no one called for its extermination in those days.
Who calls for it these days?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6476 on: December 19, 2015, 12:12:54 PM »
Then I can only say that you live in some sort of fantasy world of your own creation.

Fantasy world that's exactly it, you beat me to it Shakes, that's exactly where Alan is; the poor devil's living in a world he didn't even make up for himself, it's a sort of bronze age goat herder's, or the equivalent, idea of a fantasy world, so it's not like he's done a lot work thinking things out for himself.

ippy

 

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6477 on: December 19, 2015, 12:25:06 PM »
I am fully aware of people who have lost their faith, but none of their experiences can cause me to doubt God's existence.  My faith is a gift from God - the most precious gift that anyone could have.

That sentence alone should be sufficient for doubt.  It doesn't make any sense that a benevolent god would treat you to such wonderful gifts but leave others wondering what the ...

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6478 on: December 19, 2015, 01:11:54 PM »
(I know Shaker will not like this but here I go again ...)

I can't cease to believe in someone with whom I have a personal relationship.  And I am fully aware of people who have lost their faith, but none of their experiences can cause me to doubt God's existence.  My faith is a gift from God - the most precious gift that anyone could have.

You can, because I did. Lots of people have.

There are so many, many precious things in this world and we have a limited time to appreciate them. I regret the time that I wasted on something that doesn't exist.

Enki

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6479 on: December 19, 2015, 01:29:54 PM »
Shaker,

#6730,

Impressive post, and one which I feel a great deal of affinity with.

 :)
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SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6480 on: December 19, 2015, 01:39:32 PM »
Alan's brain switched on? Without his self inflicted  auto pilot?

ippy
:) I mean the part of the auto pilot that translates rational into , well, I think I'll call it 'mush'.
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SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6481 on: December 19, 2015, 01:44:36 PM »
You will not understand this, but God is real, more real than anyone else I know.
Sounds more like a definition of cloud cuckoo land to me!
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Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6482 on: December 19, 2015, 02:26:32 PM »
Ah!

But did you really cease to have a personal relationship of sorts? Or did it just undergo a massive change?

If you are asking if I still have a personal relationship with a personal god, no I don't.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6483 on: December 19, 2015, 02:44:59 PM »
If you are asking if I still have a personal relationship with a personal god, no I don't.
Not necessarily sugesting that Rose is doing this, but experience over many years has taught me that for a great many people, their first and last recourse when they hear about someone else's loss of belief is to deny that the other person really had such a belief in the first place. A defensive gesture, it seems to me; other people might lose a weak and flimsy belief they barely half held at best, but true believers such as themselves ... never.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6484 on: December 19, 2015, 03:02:01 PM »
Shaker gives me the impression  that everybody should just concentrate on work, not think and go back to their hutches at night and leave the thinking to him and those like him.......

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6485 on: December 19, 2015, 03:20:17 PM »
Not necessarily sugesting that Rose is doing this, but experience over many years has taught me that for a great many people, their first and last recourse when they hear about someone else's loss of belief is to deny that the other person really had such a belief in the first place. A defensive gesture, it seems to me; other people might lose a weak and flimsy belief they barely half held at best, but true believers such as themselves ... never.

I have been told many times I couldn't have been a 'true' Christian in my youth as I had lost my faith! ::)

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6486 on: December 19, 2015, 03:20:53 PM »
Shaker gives me the impression  that everybody should just concentrate on work, not think and go back to their hutches at night and leave the thinking to him and those like him.......

Vlad you really should take much more water with it! ;D

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6487 on: December 19, 2015, 03:33:28 PM »
Would you rather he was unhappy in yours?

I'd just rather see the poor deluded chap no longer deluded, not being deluded doesn't represent being depressed, he would be able to chuck all of that unnecessary time spent on those so depressing prayer things he thinks are necessary and that's only for starters.

ippy 

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6488 on: December 19, 2015, 03:33:49 PM »
Not even what you have referred to as the lady?

Or maybe I misunderstood  :)

No, you haven't.... Most neo- pagans recognise the Lady but for me she symbolises something...Sometimes I've experienced things, but I've come to think, and feel, that these are things that reside with me, in my imagination and spirit, within how I experience nature.

Bubbles

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6489 on: December 19, 2015, 03:35:49 PM »
No, you haven't.... Most neo- pagans recognise the Lady but for me she symbolises something...Sometimes I've experienced things, but I've come to think, and feel, that these are things that reside with me, in my imagination and spirit, within how I experience nature.

Ok, 🌹

 :)

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6490 on: December 19, 2015, 04:30:34 PM »
I've pointed this out to Alan in the past. Of course, he doesn't accept it, given his penchant for speaking in such absolutist and dogmatic terms as he always does (i.e. "I absolutely know," "Nothing could ever change my mind on this," claiming to know rather than to believe, such-and-such a thing is impossible, etc.)*.

The saddening thing is that it's always the people who are this heavily invested in their worldview who go utterly to pieces when it falls apart, as sometimes happens. It's a bit like the boxing adage of "The bigger they come, the harder they fall." The more utterly and flatly dogmatic someone is about their adopted worldview, as Alan is about his, the greater the devastation when it evaporates. More fluid-minded people who sit looser to their attachments - it could be a political ideology as well as a religious one - feel pain and anxiety and upset, certainly, but weather the storm, roll with the punches and come through, many feeling better for it afterwards. etc....

Excellent, Shaker.
I wonder how close to mental collapse a person is, when they have got to the point of reiterating endless variations of "All atheists are thick"?
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Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6491 on: December 19, 2015, 04:39:33 PM »
Fantasy world that's exactly it, you beat me to it Shakes, that's exactly where Alan is; the poor devil's living in a world he didn't even make up for himself, it's a sort of bronze age goat herder's, or the equivalent, idea of a fantasy world, so it's not like he's done a lot work thinking things out for himself.

ippy
I have done a lot of thinking and working out for myself, which is why I have come to the conclusion that we comprise of much more than a complex set of chemical reactions.  I do not have all the answers - no one does.  But I know that the answers are not derived from the lifeless atoms and molecules making up our physical body.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6492 on: December 19, 2015, 04:55:00 PM »
I have done a lot of thinking and working out for myself, which is why I have come to the conclusion that we comprise of much more than a complex set of chemical reactions.  I do not have all the answers - no one does.  But I know that the answers are not derived from the lifeless atoms and molecules making up our physical body.

"I know that the answers are not derived from the lifeless atoms and molecules making up our physical body".

How, you're no more special than anyone else, nor do you know any more than anyone else.

All you do is imagine you've got the ear of well, nothing.

Mr fantasy man.

ippy

savillerow

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6493 on: December 19, 2015, 04:57:23 PM »
Msg 6772 AB "answers" It's true we don't have all the answers but why can't you say in your life time that you just don't know. It's ok not to know the big answers. Why make something up and stick with it to the bitter end? It's a bit absurd making something up(or believing what someone else tells you), giving it a name, knowing things about this claim, defending all sorts of questions about the claim, putting more clothes on the invisible claim and ultimately left with smoke and mirrors. It's wishful thinking for you and just plain odd to me.
i know this is hard for theists to agree with but . . . .we are flying this planet.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6494 on: December 19, 2015, 05:08:23 PM »
Msg 6772 AB "answers" It's true we don't have all the answers but why can't you say in your life time that you just don't know. It's ok not to know the big answers. Why make something up and stick with it to the bitter end? It's a bit absurd making something up(or believing what someone else tells you), giving it a name, knowing things about this claim, defending all sorts of questions about the claim, putting more clothes on the invisible claim and ultimately left with smoke and mirrors. It's wishful thinking for you and just plain odd to me.

Precisely Savvi, another one on rails, fingers in the ears, eyes shut, la la la la la la la, a total, totally deluded.

Trouble is with his stuff is the time spent on it when they could be doing something, anything else useful. 

ippy

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6495 on: December 19, 2015, 06:15:35 PM »
I have done a lot of thinking and working out for myself, which is why I have come to the conclusion that we comprise of much more than a complex set of chemical reactions.  I do not have all the answers - no one does.  But I know that the answers are not derived from the lifeless atoms and molecules making up our physical body.

We should all be familiar by now with the idea that all life forms and made of lifeless atoms and molecules. To someone in the Middle Ages this would have been deeply counterintuitive. What we describe as life is something that happens at a different scale. We still struggle however with the concept that mind is matter. We are encultured into thinking of mind as an ontologically distinct thing from brain; it just seems such a fundamentally different domain of stuff.

When ancient Greeks first worked out that the Earth was not flat, but spherical, it must have tested their credulity; when we dismissed the geocentric universe and replaced it with our current planetary model it would have been seen as ridiculous; any idiot could look up and see that all the heavens orbitted around the Earth.  Einstein gave us an understanding of spacetime that still runs deeply counter to our intuitions; how on earth could time be flowing at a different speed at my head to that at my feet ?

All our leaps forward in the past have required of us to abandon ancient intuitive ways of thinking and this is where we are at right now with understanding mind/body/consciousness; all the evidence strongly suggests that mind is matter ultimately, and it is up to us in our age to rise to the challenge to dismiss our older intuitions and get our heads around this knowledge. It requires a paradigm shift in our thinking; bald denials of new insights will get reap us nothing but stagnation.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6496 on: December 19, 2015, 07:29:52 PM »
Shaker gives me the impression  that everybody should just concentrate on work, not think and go back to their hutches at night and leave the thinking to him and those like him.......

If their "thinking" has led them to knowledge of a 'god' ... then indeed that's the best thing they can do.

SweetPea

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6497 on: December 19, 2015, 10:08:10 PM »
I'm trying to think of any parallel sentiments I could express being someone who went from secular humanism where God belief was an eccentricity.....no one called for its extermination in those days.

From my point of view my spiritual journey starts with overwhelming consent.in the idea and experience of passing from dark to light.

Vlad, it's a shame Lapsed Atheist doesn't appear to post any longer (haven't seen a comment from him in months) but he may have had a similar experience to yours.

Twelve months ago I had an awakening from darkness to light.... and everything now is so clear.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6498 on: December 19, 2015, 11:44:02 PM »
Quote
Quote from: On stage before it wore off. on Today at 11:29:48 AM

    I'm trying to think of any parallel sentiments I could express being someone who went from secular humanism where God belief was an eccentricity.....no one called for its extermination in those days.

    From my point of view my spiritual journey starts with overwhelming consent.in the idea and experience of passing from dark to light.


Vlad, it's a shame Lapsed Atheist doesn't appear to post any longer (haven't seen a comment from him in months) but he may have had a similar experience to yours.

Twelve months ago I had an awakening from darkness to light.... and everything now is so clear.
Ultimately this is what this thread is all about.
I just hope and pray that many more will come to see the light.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6499 on: December 19, 2015, 11:59:36 PM »
Vlad, it's a shame Lapsed Atheist doesn't appear to post any longer (haven't seen a comment from him in months) but he may have had a similar experience to yours.

Twelve months ago I had an awakening from darkness to light.... and everything now is so clear.

Ultimately this is what this thread is all about.
I just hope and pray that many more will come to see the light.

If the light doesn't make sense, it is probably wrong.