Author Topic: Searching for GOD... (Read 3904900 times)

If the deity is always there why didn't he give me some sign of his presence when I needed it at the age of eleven? It doesn't say anything good about it if it refused to give a kid some solace. The most obvious answer is that it doesn't exist.

Shakes got it right when he referred to fantasy land, that's where this bloke is.

ippy.

Leonard James · « **Reply #6505 on:** December 20, 2015, 12:55:47 PM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on December 20, 2015, 09:40:45 AM

But that is the whole point of the light - everything fall into place and makes perfect sense.

I'm afraid that's the problem with it ... it doesn't make sense at all.

What sense is there in letting children suffer dreadful illnesses when you have the power to cure them?

None, Alan, as you very well know.

Walt Zingmatilder · « **Reply #6506 on:** December 20, 2015, 01:01:18 PM »

Quote from: Leonard James on December 20, 2015, 12:55:47 PM

I'm afraid that's the problem with it ... it doesn't make sense at all.

What sense is there in letting children suffer dreadful illnesses when you have the power to cure them?

None, Alan, as you very well know.

What's the point of letting children suffer when one has plenty?

Leonard James · « **Reply #6507 on:** December 20, 2015, 01:05:35 PM »

Quote from: On stage before it wore off. on December 20, 2015, 01:01:18 PM

What's the point of letting children suffer when one has plenty?

None whatever, unless you are a sadist.

Walt Zingmatilder · « **Reply #6508 on:** December 20, 2015, 01:14:07 PM »

Quote from: Leonard James on December 20, 2015, 01:05:35 PM

None whatever, unless you are a sadist.

Your question is a subset of why didn't God make everything perfect?
If there is a God it has and it will be. The trouble comes with half or selective belief about what God is and does.

Most of human suffering is due to humanity so the answer to suffering is in our Perdue.

Leonard James · « **Reply #6509 on:** December 20, 2015, 01:20:01 PM »

Quote from: On stage before it wore off. on December 20, 2015, 01:14:07 PM

Your question is a subset of why didn't God make everything perfect?
If there is a God it has and it will be. The trouble comes with half or selective belief about what God is and does.

Most of human suffering is due to humanity so the answer to suffering is in our Perdue.

On the contrary, ALL of the suffering on this earth could be prevented by this all-knowing, all-powerful. loving(?) "God". Most humans would do it if they could.

He is clearly indifferent to it, or he doesn't exist. Take your choice.

Walt Zingmatilder · « **Reply #6510 on:** December 20, 2015, 01:27:42 PM »

Quote from: Leonard James on December 20, 2015, 01:20:01 PM

On the contrary, ALL of the suffering on this earth could be prevented by this all-knowing, all-powerful. loving(?) "God". Most humans would do it if they could.

Well that's the problem for you Len since according to you there is no God but man doesn't show any sign of letting up on inflicting suffering.......so no ............you are wrong.

Leonard James · « **Reply #6511 on:** December 20, 2015, 01:40:17 PM »

Quote from: On stage before it wore off. on December 20, 2015, 01:27:42 PM

Well that's the problem for you Len since according to you there is no God

No, the problem is yours since you believe there is.

Quote

but man doesn't show any sign of letting up on inflicting suffering.......so no ............you are wrong.

Man is not all-powerful,....so no.....you are wrong,

Walt Zingmatilder · « **Reply #6512 on:** December 20, 2015, 01:45:47 PM »

Quote from: Leonard James on December 20, 2015, 01:40:17 PM

No, the problem is yours since you believe there is.
Man is not all-powerful,....so no.....you are wrong,

Man inflicts most suffering on the world so cannot be painted as you are doing so as willing but powerless to stop it.

Leonard James · « **Reply #6513 on:** December 20, 2015, 01:50:47 PM »

Quote from: On stage before it wore off. on December 20, 2015, 01:45:47 PM

Man inflicts most suffering on the world so cannot be painted as you are doing so as willing but powerless to stop it.

On the contrary, an enormous amount of time and money are devoted to relieve suffering. All from humans. None from "God".

Alan Burns · « **Reply #6514 on:** December 20, 2015, 02:08:08 PM »

Quote from: torridon on December 20, 2015, 10:06:24 AM

If it made perfect sense then it would be obvious to all

And there lies the mystery

Alan Burns · « **Reply #6515 on:** December 20, 2015, 02:12:17 PM »

Quote from: Leonard James on December 20, 2015, 01:20:01 PM

On the contrary, ALL of the suffering on this earth could be prevented by this all-knowing, all-powerful. loving(?) "God".

There will be no suffering in heaven, where God wants us to be.

Alan Burns · « **Reply #6516 on:** December 20, 2015, 02:22:02 PM »

Quote from: Leonard James on December 20, 2015, 01:50:47 PM

On the contrary, an enormous amount of time and money are devoted to relieve suffering. All from humans. None from "God".

But it was God, not nature who gave us the gifts of conscious awareness and free will to enable us to do good works. Without these gifts we would just be on the roller coaster ride of determinism.

Shaker · « **Reply #6517 on:** December 20, 2015, 02:24:00 PM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on December 20, 2015, 02:22:02 PM

But it was God, not nature who gave us the gifts of conscious awareness and free will to enable us to do good works. Without these gifts we would just be on the roller coaster ride of determinism.

Out of the two statements here - Len's post #6796 to which you're responding, and your reply above - which one is factually, demonstrably true and which one is just a string of assertions?

Alan Burns · « **Reply #6518 on:** December 20, 2015, 02:30:59 PM »

Quote from: torridon on December 19, 2015, 06:15:35 PM

All our leaps forward in the past have required of us to abandon ancient intuitive ways of thinking and this is where we are at right now with understanding mind/body/consciousness; all the evidence strongly suggests that mind is matter ultimately, and it is up to us in our age to rise to the challenge to dismiss our older intuitions and get our heads around this knowledge. It requires a paradigm shift in our thinking; bald denials of new insights will get reap us nothing but stagnation.

But if we insist on trying to define our conscious awareness in material terms we will be working along the same lines as the alchemists trying to make gold from lead.

Alan Burns · « **Reply #6519 on:** December 20, 2015, 02:33:25 PM »

Quote from: Shaker on December 20, 2015, 02:24:00 PM

Out of the two statements here - Len's post #6796 to which you're responding, and your reply above - which one is factually, demonstrably true and which one is just a string of assertions?

You say they are assertions, but can you say in all honesty that they can't possibly be true?

Walt Zingmatilder · « **Reply #6520 on:** December 20, 2015, 02:34:28 PM »

Quote from: Leonard James on December 20, 2015, 01:50:47 PM

On the contrary, an enormous amount of time and money are devoted to relieve suffering. All from humans. None from "God".

But suffering as you point out is still a huge problem so this alleviation must pail in comparison............
Plus it doesn't cover the suffering which is meted out by man.

Sentimental on your part Len.

Shaker · « **Reply #6521 on:** December 20, 2015, 02:39:54 PM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on December 20, 2015, 02:33:25 PM

You say they are assertions

Because they are, and that's all they are.

Quote

but can you say in all honesty that they can't possibly be true?

There are absolutely no grounds on which to base the possibility to begin with. It's possible (and IMV probable, but that's a separate discussion) that there is life on other planets. We understand a great deal about life here on this planet, we can define it, we know of the existence of umpteen other planets, we know how to go about looking for life elsewhere and we would know it if we found it.

Absolutely none of those conditions apply to your string of bald assertions.

torridon · « **Reply #6522 on:** December 20, 2015, 03:02:20 PM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on December 20, 2015, 02:30:59 PM

But if we insist on trying to define our conscious awareness in material terms we will be working along the same lines as the alchemists trying to make gold from lead.

I don't get that analogy. Consciousness research is not about meddling in mysticism, it is about trying to understand what the evidence is telling us, which, broadly speaking, is that mental states correspond to brain states; to understand how thoughts, feelings,emotions etc can be made of matter requires of us that we dissolve the disjoint in western cultural thinking that has seen mind and matter as separate things. To progress we have to overcome that hurdle, just as in the early 20th century we had to dismiss notions of absolute space and time in order to progress. Evidence won't go away; we can either try to make sense of it, or we can just ignore it and stagnate.

Leonard James · « **Reply #6523 on:** December 20, 2015, 03:08:38 PM »

Quote from: Alan Burns on December 20, 2015, 02:22:02 PM

But it was God, not nature who gave us the gifts of conscious awareness and free will to enable us to do good works. Without these gifts we would just be on the roller coaster ride of determinism.

You have no way of knowing that ... it's just your belief.

Humans have worked out ways to do good things and bad ones. If human ingenuity is a gift from "God", then it is a two-edged sword.

Leonard James · « **Reply #6524 on:** December 20, 2015, 03:12:41 PM »

Quote from: On stage before it wore off. on December 20, 2015, 02:34:28 PM

But suffering as you point out is still a huge problem so this alleviation must pail in comparison............
Plus it doesn't cover the suffering which is meted out by man.

Sentimental on your part Len.

What a pity your "God" doesn't display a little human type empathy now and again.

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Author Topic: Searching for GOD... (Read 3904900 times)