Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3904519 times)

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6525 on: December 20, 2015, 03:15:04 PM »
And there lies the mystery   :(

It's no mystery ... "God" is just a figment of human imagination.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6526 on: December 20, 2015, 03:17:30 PM »
You have no way of knowing that ... it's just your belief.
Alan's a great one for the really whopping but completely unsupported claim of knowledge, Len ;)
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6527 on: December 20, 2015, 03:24:58 PM »
Alan's a great one for the really whopping but completely unsupported claim of knowledge, Len ;)

I hate to say it, but he and Sass make a fine pair!

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6528 on: December 20, 2015, 03:44:04 PM »
What a pity your "God" doesn't display a little human type empathy now and again.
He does in Jesus Christ.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6529 on: December 20, 2015, 03:46:01 PM »
Alan's a great one for the really whopping but completely unsupported claim of knowledge, Len ;)
....And your telling Len!,,,,,,,,

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6530 on: December 20, 2015, 03:48:36 PM »
He does in Jesus Christ.

And a fat lot of good that did! We still have the same dismal amount of evil as before he lived.

Try again!

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6531 on: December 20, 2015, 03:50:11 PM »
....And your telling Len!,,,,,,,,

You are the one who should be taking note. You spend all your time here making unsubstantiated claims.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6532 on: December 20, 2015, 03:50:49 PM »
He does in Jesus Christ.

Jesus certainly is much better behaved than the deity, but had his faults just like any other mere human.

jeremyp

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6533 on: December 20, 2015, 06:17:54 PM »
There will be no suffering in heaven, where God wants us to be.

So he could have made Earth perfect, he just chose not to. What a sadistic bastard.
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6534 on: December 20, 2015, 06:22:19 PM »
And a fat lot of good that did! We still have the same dismal amount of evil as before he lived.

Try again!
No Len he is the way back to God. Please read the prodigal son again.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6535 on: December 20, 2015, 06:23:12 PM »
So he could have made Earth perfect, he just chose not to. What a sadistic bastard.
Or wanted to but didn't know how.

Or wanted to and knew how but couldn't.

Hardly inspiring confidence in any case.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6536 on: December 20, 2015, 09:06:39 PM »
No Len he is the way back to God. Please read the prodigal son again.

The blind leading the blind. I can do without that.  :)

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6537 on: December 20, 2015, 11:10:17 PM »
And a fat lot of good that did! We still have the same dismal amount of evil as before he lived.

Try again!
Jesus opened up the way to heaven - to deliver us from evil.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6538 on: December 20, 2015, 11:21:16 PM »
I don't get that analogy.   Consciousness research is not about meddling in mysticism, it is about trying to understand what the evidence is telling us, which, broadly speaking, is that mental states correspond to brain states; to understand how thoughts, feelings,emotions etc can be made of matter requires of us that we dissolve the disjoint in western cultural thinking that has seen mind and matter as separate things.  To progress we have to overcome that hurdle, just as in the early 20th century we had to dismiss notions of absolute space and time in order to progress. Evidence won't go away; we can either try to make sense of it, or we can just ignore it and stagnate.
What I was inferring was that you will never fully define conscious awareness by looking at chemical activity in the brain.  All you will find is correlation - not definition.  There is more to conscious awareness than chemical activity, and until we can investigate the link between the soul and the brain we will never define conscious awareness.  I know that Shaker will simply dismiss this as mere assertion, but to me it is divine revelation.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6539 on: December 20, 2015, 11:27:35 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Alan Burns on Today at 02:12:17 PM

    There will be no suffering in heaven, where God wants us to be.
You make statements you can't justify with any proof!
I was just reminding you of what is written in the Bible.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6540 on: December 20, 2015, 11:27:43 PM »
I know that Shaker will simply dismiss this as mere assertion
Yes, because that's all it is.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6541 on: December 20, 2015, 11:28:01 PM »
I was just re stating what is written in the Bible.
As Floo was saying ... assertions without evidence.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

jeremyp

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6542 on: December 20, 2015, 11:28:21 PM »
What I was inferring was that you will never fully define conscious awareness by looking at chemical activity in the brain.  All you will find is correlation - not definition.  There is more to conscious awareness than chemical activity, and until we can investigate the link between the soul and the brain we will never define conscious awareness.  I know that Shaker will simply dismiss this as mere assertion, but to me it is divine revelation.

It is assertion without evidence.
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torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6543 on: December 21, 2015, 07:13:50 AM »

Quote
If it made perfect sense then it would be obvious to all

And there lies the mystery   :(

The mystery dissolves when you realise this : that just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, God is in the mind of the believer. This is a rationale much truer to evidence; everybody's brain is unique, so it follows perfectly naturally that there will be diversity in the way we experience life.  This gets us out of having to invent even more reams of make-believe, like devils,  to explain why god does not manifest to everyone.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6544 on: December 21, 2015, 07:17:50 AM »
What I was inferring was that you will never fully define conscious awareness by looking at chemical activity in the brain.  All you will find is correlation - not definition.  There is more to conscious awareness than chemical activity, and until we can investigate the link between the soul and the brain we will never define conscious awareness.  I know that Shaker will simply dismiss this as mere assertion, but to me it is divine revelation.

We cannot investigate something that isn't there. What we can do, and what we are doing, is investigating what is there, and trying to understand it.  That is a more honest and open minded approach

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6545 on: December 21, 2015, 08:10:57 AM »
Jesus opened up the way to heaven - to deliver us from evil.

Explain why this was a logical and compassionate thing for God to do.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6546 on: December 21, 2015, 08:15:29 AM »
Actually that statement hasn't any meaning in reality, imo.

It doesn't make a great deal of sense in faith fantasy land either, Floo.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6547 on: December 21, 2015, 09:05:49 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Alan Burns on December 20, 2015, 11:10:17 PM

    Jesus opened up the way to heaven - to deliver us from evil.

Explain why this was a logical and compassionate thing for God to do.
You would not need to ask this question if you were aware of the power of evil.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6548 on: December 21, 2015, 09:18:47 AM »
You would not need to ask this question if you were aware of the power of evil.
I doubt if anybody of a reasonable age with some experience of life is unaware of it, Al.

The difference is that for some reason you seem to want to make it some sort of metaphysical force caused by a great big supernatural baddy. Needless to say, there's no more a scintilla of evidence for that than for anything else you dream up. It was I think Joseph Conrad who said, quite rightly, (paraphrasing here) that humans alone, just humans, are capable of every kind of wickedness; no need to go around inventing devils and demons to explain it, because that's just a rather childish cop-out.

That also applies to goodness, however.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 09:24:08 AM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #6549 on: December 21, 2015, 09:23:42 AM »
Explain why this was a logical and compassionate thing for God to do.

You would not need to ask this question if you were aware of the power of evil.

Saying something in a suitably portentous tone doesn't make it true. Nor does it answer my question.