Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3898021 times)

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7775 on: January 11, 2016, 12:09:28 PM »
Dear Alan,

Are you saying without Christianity we would still be throwing people to the lions. :o

Bold!! heroic!! or just plain crazy. :o :o

Gonnagle.
Just that I prefer to put my trust in God rather than human nature.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Gonnagle

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7776 on: January 11, 2016, 12:12:14 PM »
Dear Alan,

Quote
Just that I prefer to put my trust in God rather than human nature.

Can't argue with that but I prefer to say Jesus ;)

Gonnagle.
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Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7777 on: January 11, 2016, 12:17:42 PM »
Just that I prefer to put my trust in God rather than human nature.
In the undefined, the unseen, undemonstrated, unevidenced over the palpably real.

Faith in action I guess ::)
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7778 on: January 11, 2016, 12:26:07 PM »
Then you could well be up the creek without a paddle, if the nature of the deity is anything like the Biblical description of it! It hasn't done your friend Becky and favours has it?
Harsh, and something over which I've had to bite my tongue practically in two many a time, but true.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7779 on: January 11, 2016, 12:27:50 PM »
Just that I prefer to put my trust in God rather than human nature.

And yet it's only humanity that has the faintest chance of getting us out of the mess we are in. We save ourselves, Alan.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7780 on: January 11, 2016, 12:32:37 PM »
No, no, that you can't do! I wouldn't be able to read what you say then!

I had another TIA last week - I wonder how many TIAs add up to a final something?!  fortunately I'm very fit otherwise.

Oh dear, I'm so sorry! Take great care, Susan, and do everything the doc advises!

Love,
Leonard.

Gonnagle

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7781 on: January 11, 2016, 12:34:42 PM »
Dear Shaker,

Unevidenced, what!! that we can be more, Einstein, Kipling, Mozart, Beethoven, Blake, Bowie, the list is endless, there is your evidence.

Ooops,

And then we have  floo showing the flip side of that coin.

Gonnagle.
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Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7782 on: January 11, 2016, 12:36:46 PM »
Dear Susan and Leonard,

Go on admit it, you love us Christian types, your guilty secret.

Gonnagle.

I confess I can see the good in most people ... I don't think anybody is totally evil. As far as "you Christian types" are concerned, most of you are well-meaning but misguided!  :)

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7783 on: January 11, 2016, 12:40:04 PM »
Dear Shaker,

Unevidenced, what!! that we can be more, Einstein, Kipling, Mozart, Beethoven, Blake, Bowie, the list is endless, there is your evidence.



Gonners, my friend, I hope you are not suggesting that the people you mention are evidence of God/Jesus! They are just people, like  you and me.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7784 on: January 11, 2016, 12:43:59 PM »
Dear Shaker,

Unevidenced, what!! that we can be more, Einstein, Kipling, Mozart, Beethoven, Blake, Bowie, the list is endless, there is your evidence.
That's evidence of human intelligence and creativity, though, Gonners, not evidence of a supernatural being.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7785 on: January 11, 2016, 12:46:42 PM »
Dear Shaker,

Unevidenced, what!! that we can be more, Einstein, Kipling, Mozart, Beethoven, Blake, Bowie, the list is endless, there is your evidence.


Gonnagle.

Gonners, that's evidence of some of the best that humanity can achieve. Credit where it's due please.

And we can be more than what, exactly?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 12:48:13 PM by Rhiannon »

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7786 on: January 11, 2016, 12:46:49 PM »
That's evidence of human intelligence and creativity, though, Gonners, not evidence of a supernatural being.

Precisely! Nature and nurture made these people what they are, and both of them are firmly rooted in the physical world.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7787 on: January 11, 2016, 12:59:47 PM »
Dear ippy,

In very simplistic terms, one Christian chewing the fat with another Christian.

We may be very different Christians, Christians come in many flavours, but I understand when he mentions John 1:1, it probably means nothing to you, but it resonates with me, Christian thing, and yes we are a very weird lot.

Gonnagle.

Yes Gonners I understood that; I would still like to know in the simplest of terms how you can possibly know Alan's not wrong?

ippy

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7788 on: January 11, 2016, 01:02:22 PM »
AB,

Quote
As Pontius Pilate said:

So the chief priests of the Jews were saying to Pilate, "Do not write, 'The King of the Jews'; but that He said, 'I am King of the Jews.'" Pilate answered, "What I have written I have written."  John 19:21-22

OK, so you don't know what "circular reasoning" means at all then then.

So let's take a step back - do you know what "logical fallacy" means?
"Don't make me come down there."

God

SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7789 on: January 11, 2016, 01:08:06 PM »
In the undefined, the unseen, undemonstrated, unevidenced over the palpably real.

Faith in action I guess ::)
Wellput. I was wondering how to point out, in the strongest possible way, that humanity exists, supernatural ideas don't.
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

floo

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7790 on: January 11, 2016, 01:15:12 PM »
That's evidence of human intelligence and creativity, though, Gonners, not evidence of a supernatural being.

Agreed!

Gonnagle

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7791 on: January 11, 2016, 01:18:08 PM »
Dear Leonard,

Quote
Gonners, my friend, I hope you are not suggesting that the people you mention are evidence of God/Jesus! They are just people, like  you and me.

Yes they are just people, but they have touched God ( whatever God is ) and in touching God they make us touch God, but then it is my own little theory that there is, inside of all of us, a Einstein, Mozart, Kipling.

And yes Leonard, evidence, a small part of the evidence that we are more.

How can evolution explain

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/joseph-mallord-william-turner-the-fighting-temeraire

Hauntingly beautiful.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7792 on: January 11, 2016, 01:20:43 PM »
But this "infection" as you call it has defined much of the civilised society we live in today.   Is there any alternative society without a Christian heritage where you would prefer to live?  Or try to imagine what sort of society our inherently self centred human ancestors would have developed without the contraints of Christian teachings and morality?  Would the summit of human entertainment be the modern equivalent of the gory spectacles performed in the colliseum in Rome?

Like I said your fantasy world Alan, most of us here on the forum are aware of history, it looks like the more education overall in any country adds up to less of the fantasy followers like you, nearly 50% non-religious now here in the UK.

It'll still be some time before we get religion out of our schools, it's coming.

No not banning anything about religion in our schools, just keeping it in it's place, like not writing it out of history lessons and not teaching about it in any way that would make it appear anymore important than say unionism is, for example.     

ippy

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7793 on: January 11, 2016, 01:23:25 PM »
Dear Leonard,

Yes they are just people, but they have touched God ( whatever God is ) and in touching God they make us touch God, but then it is my own little theory that there is, inside of all of us, a Einstein, Mozart, Kipling.

And yes Leonard, evidence, a small part of the evidence that we are more.

How can evolution explain

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/joseph-mallord-william-turner-the-fighting-temeraire

Hauntingly beautiful.

Gonnagle.

Evolution produced our aesthetic sense, which I assume is what you are talking about.

Gonnagle

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7794 on: January 11, 2016, 01:34:29 PM »
Dear Leonard,

From wiki

Quote
Evolutionary aesthetics refers to evolutionary psychology theories in which the basic aesthetic preferences of Homo sapiens are argued to have evolved in order to enhance survival and reproductive success.[62] One example being that humans are argued to find beautiful and prefer landscapes which were good habitats in the ancestral environment. Another example is that body symmetry is an important aspect of physical attractiveness which may be due to this indicating good health during body growth. Evolutionary explanations for aesthetical preferences are important parts of evolutionary musicology, Darwinian literary studies, and the study of the evolution of emotion.

Okay old chum, it has me thinking.

Gonnagle.
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Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7795 on: January 11, 2016, 01:40:06 PM »
Dear Leonard,

From wiki

Okay old chum, it has me thinking.

Gonnagle.

As far as I am concerned, Gonners, aesthetic appreciation began as soon as a member of a sexually reproducing species chose one mate in preference to another.

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7796 on: January 11, 2016, 01:41:47 PM »
Then you could well be up the creek without a paddle, if the nature of the deity is anything like the Biblical description of it! It hasn't done your friend Becky and favours has it?
Whatever happens to Becky, I know she is safely in God's hands.  Her faith has inspired many people including myself and her husband Andrew, who confesses to being a luke warm Christian before he met Becky.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 01:44:45 PM by Alan Burns »
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7797 on: January 11, 2016, 01:43:55 PM »
Dear Leonard,

Yes they are just people, but they have touched God ( whatever God is ) and in touching God they make us touch God, but then it is my own little theory that there is, inside of all of us, a Einstein, Mozart, Kipling.

And yes Leonard, evidence, a small part of the evidence that we are more.

How can evolution explain

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/joseph-mallord-william-turner-the-fighting-temeraire

Hauntingly beautiful.

Gonnagle.

Gonners, I'm a pantheist - so in a sense I agree that if you want to claim that the artistry of human beings is a spark of God I can agree, kind of... what the Quakers call the Light within. Where I leave you though is the idea that only humanity has this spark - as soon as we believe that we are on the path to worshipping ourselves. It's stopping seeing the earth and the life that we share it with as our own sacred kin that has caused untold suffering - human suffering included - and could well lead to our own demise.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7798 on: January 11, 2016, 01:44:36 PM »
Whatever happens to Becky, I know she is safely in God's hands.  Her faith has inspired many people including myself and her husband, Andrew, who confesses to being a luke warm Christian before he met Becky.

Yes, it's a very comforting delusion if you can swallow it.  :)

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #7799 on: January 11, 2016, 01:49:51 PM »
AB,

So let's take a step back - do you know what "logical fallacy" means?
It would appear to be a label commonly applied to my posts when someone disagrees with me.  ;)
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton