Searching for GOD...

[ippy]

I would think it is the duty of parents to try to share their wisdom, accumulated over their lifetime, with their children to give them a good start in making up their own minds.

I would agree with share their wisdom, accumulated over their lifetime, with their children to give them a good start in making up their own minds. share their wisdom and wouldn't a part of that wisdom would always look for the evidence.

How do you defend accepting anything without even the slightest piece of a modicum of evidence?

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

Worth a look.

http://uk.phaidon.com/store/architecture/sacred-spaces-9780714868950/

This is what I regard as a sacred space

http://tinyurl.com/zz6y4dp

[Gordon]

Most families I know of will allow their children to make up their own minds when they are old enough to reason.  I do not see this as indoctrination.

Provided that children aren't introduced to matters on which they need to make their mind up about before they have developed sufficient critical thinking skills to be able to do so.

What worries me is that so many young people are growing up without any real knowledge of God, so they will have nothing on which to make their minds up.

Which assumes that what you think about God constitutes knowledge about God: I'd say not.

I recently came across a statistic which showed that a substantial percentage of children (I can't remember the exact figure) did not know why we celebrate Christmas.

Since we've just dispatched the annual insanity season I'll just note that many of us don't celebrate 'Christmas' for religious reasons: I hope I remembered to wish you a Happy Saturnalia last month.

[Rhiannon]

Ah, I see. Thank you.

Nevertheless I think children should be taught morality as if it were fact.

So if my morality is that we should have the death penalty? If my morality is that homosexuality should be against the law?

[Shaker]

This is what I regard as a sacred space

http://tinyurl.com/zz6y4dp

For me this is:

http://goo.gl/LOVqHN

[Gordon]

This is what I regard as a sacred space

http://tinyurl.com/zz6y4dp

Me too!

[ippy]

Probably would be too contemporary for me, architecturally, but you're along the right lines

Could it be built at a knock down price?

ippy

[Leonard James]

So if my morality is that we should have the death penalty? If my morality is that homosexuality should be against the law?

 

Oh dear! What's the answer then? As I have said before we are trying to fight against nature, and nature will always win. All we can do is keep fighting!

[Shaker]

Could it be built at a knock down price?

ippy

Yes but after two months all the knobs and handles would drop off.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Hi Len,

I'm sorry, Blue, but I don't see any difference in teaching children that it is wrong to steal, and teaching them that 2+2=4.

However, I admit that may be because I have not learned the difference (if there is one).

But maths teacher's don't just say "2+2=4". What the do say though is, "here's the method by which you can calculate the answers to sums, for example 2+2." That's why they insist on seeing the working out along the way, and why you can still get good marks even if the final answer is wrong.

A religious "fact" though - eg, that man/god was alive for a bit and then dead and then alive again - is equivalent for this purpose to to just teaching "4".

Morality is different again though - that's about methods to an extent (causing least harm for example) - but ultimately it rests on conventions and Zeitgeists that can move over time and place.     

[Rhiannon]

For me this is:

http://goo.gl/LOVqHN

An idea of mine here:

http://www.northnorthwest.co.uk

[Shaker]

An idea of mine here:

http://www.northnorthwest.co.uk

Yep, same

[Leonard James]

Hi Len,

But maths teacher's don't just say "2+2=4". What the do say though is, "here's the method by which you can calculate the answers to sums, for example 2+2." That's why they insist on seeing the working out along the way, and why you can still get good marks even if the final answer is wrong.

A religious "fact" though - eg, that man/god was alive for a bit and then dead and then alive again - is equivalent for this purpose to to just teaching "4".

Morality is different again though - that's about methods to an extent (causing least harm for example) - but ultimately it rests on conventions and Zeitgeists that can move over time and place.     

Yes, thanks Blue. We will just have to muddle along trying to improve the general morality ... there seems no quick way to the solution.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Shakes,

Yes but after two months all the knobs and handles would drop off.

Yes, but at least the holy text would come in 27 languages 

[Shaker]

True 

[Nearly Sane]

I would agree with share their wisdom, accumulated over their lifetime, with their children to give them a good start in making up their own minds. share their wisdom and wouldn't a part of that wisdom would always look for the evidence.

How do you defend accepting anything without even the slightest piece of a modicum of evidence?

ippy

And I would agree but Alan thinks there is evidence. It isn't what you or I might regard as evidence but he'll tell you the whole wondrous world from his little bitty toeses up to big ginormous mountains are all evidence and it's all backed up by his own experiences.

[Shaker]

Been a busy old day on SfG again - glad to see the bus is still trundling along 

[ippy]

Yes but after two months all the knobs and handles would drop off.

You win.

ippy

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

And I would agree but Alan thinks there is evidence. It isn't what you or I might regard as evidence but he'll tell you the whole wondrous world from his little bitty toeses up to big ginormous mountains are all evidence and it's all backed up by his own experiences.

Quite. He'll bury you with evidence for little Timmy being poorly before he prayed for him and cured afterwards, but never is there one hint of a jot of a smidgin of an iota of a nano fact even to suggest that it was the praying wot did it.

And so it it goes in Alanworld...     

[Nearly Sane]

Been a busy old day on SfG again - glad to see the bus is still trundling along 

I was disenamoured of it for a while when it kept doing repeats. As a sort of default god thread which rolls along, it works quite well.

[Rhiannon]

Been a busy old day on SfG again - glad to see the bus is still trundling along 

Astonishing thread, this. It's taken on a life of its own. Some of the best conversations I've had here in recent times have been on this thread, and there are some knock-out posts.

[Leonard James]

I was disenamoured of it for a while when it kept doing repeats. As a sort of default god thread which rolls along, it works quite well.

But are we achieving anything? 

[Shaker]

But are we achieving anything? 

Certainly not with Alan "Come back here, I'll bite your legs off!" Burns - but as Rhi has just said, there has been some absolutely stellar writing and that's an achievement in my book. Almost anything by blue "Sleeps with the fishes" hillside, for example.

[Leonard James]

Certainly not with Alan "Come back here, I'll bite your legs off!" Burns - but as Rhi has just said, there has been some absolutely stellar writing and that's an achievement in my book. Almost anything by blue "Sleeps with the fishes" hillside, for example.

Yes, I thought my life was complete until he came along! 

[Nearly Sane]

NS,

Quite. He'll bury you with evidence for little Timmy being poorly before he prayed for him and cured afterwards, but never is there one hint of a jot of a smidgin of an iota of a nano fact even to suggest that it was the praying wot did it.

And so it it goes in Alanworld...   

Of course this would be where a methodology which covered what amounts to evidence would be useful. I know of several but they are all naturalistic in their assumptions. Maybe if we ask for one from people who talk about non naturalistic claims they will provide one? I do hope so.