Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3897966 times)

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8300 on: January 19, 2016, 01:46:24 PM »
But are we achieving anything?  ::)

I find the purpose of a thread like this is to clarify my own thoughts and get ideas out there. As such it's pretty successful. Then there's the points of connection with others who say something that reflects back to me my own thoughts and feelings. The last thing a thread like this should be viewed as is as a tool for convincing others of a point of view other than their own.

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8301 on: January 19, 2016, 01:47:44 PM »
I find the purpose of a thread like this is to clarify my own thoughts and get ideas out there. As such it's pretty successful. Then there's the points of connection with others who say something that reflects back to me my own thoughts and feelings. The last thing a thread like this should be viewed as is as a tool for convincing others of a point of view other than their own.

Yes Rhi, full agreement here.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8302 on: January 19, 2016, 01:50:26 PM »
Still over 6000 posts short of the Noah's Ark thread on the BBC

Leonard James

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8303 on: January 19, 2016, 01:51:46 PM »
Still over 6000 posts short of the Noah's Ark thread on the BBC

Blimey man, how do you remember that?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8304 on: January 19, 2016, 01:53:19 PM »
Blimey man, how do you remember that?


I wrote the 15000th post on it. Numbers are easy for me.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8305 on: January 19, 2016, 01:56:03 PM »
Still over 6000 posts short of the Noah's Ark thread on the BBC
Well I'm game.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8306 on: January 19, 2016, 02:03:34 PM »
Well I'm game.

The worrying thing is that so am I. Which I think means that I'm planning to spend my life peering at my phone until at least June.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8307 on: January 19, 2016, 02:06:06 PM »
The worrying thing is that so am I. Which I think means that I'm planning to spend my life peering at my phone until at least June.
Yeah, but you do that anyway  :P
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Gonnagle

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8308 on: January 19, 2016, 02:07:32 PM »
Dear Sane and Gordon,

Another sacred place.

http://www.thedroversinn.co.uk/

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8309 on: January 19, 2016, 02:12:43 PM »
What worries me is that so many young people are growing up without any real knowledge of God, so they will have nothing on which to make their minds up.  I recently came across a statistic which showed that a substantial percentage of children (I can't remember the exact figure) did not know why we celebrate Christmas.
How can they have a 'knowledge' of 'God' when it is entirely a human idea with zero substance?
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8310 on: January 19, 2016, 02:14:13 PM »
Yeah, but you do that anyway  :P

 :P

Would help if I remembered my reading glasses...

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8311 on: January 19, 2016, 02:20:41 PM »
Shakes,

Quote
Certainly not with Alan "Come back here, I'll bite your legs off!" Burns - but as Rhi has just said, there has been some absolutely stellar writing and that's an achievement in my book. Almost anything by blue "Sleeps with the fishes" hillside, for example.

Aw stop it now - you'll give me an attack of the vapours  ;)
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Rhiannon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8312 on: January 19, 2016, 02:23:31 PM »
How can they have a 'knowledge' of 'God' when it is entirely a human idea with zero substance?

Knowledge about beliefs about God I do find peculiar. But when Alan says 'we' he means Christians, and in this country teaching young people about it should predominantly be teaching what a minority believe and practice, but that has had a huge influence on our culture.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8313 on: January 19, 2016, 02:27:20 PM »
NS,

Quote
Of course this would be where a methodology which covered what amounts to evidence would be useful. I know of several but they are all naturalistic in their assumptions. Maybe if we ask for one from people who talk about non naturalistic claims they will provide one? I do hope so.

No chance. I've tried many, many times - notably with poor Vlad who just disappears over the hill when I do ask, scattering accusations of not answering questions in his wake - and so far as I know no-one else either has ever even attempted to build that bridge from feelings to facts.

Pity really. I had hoped that the more thoughtful theists who believe in an objective god would at least recognise the problem rather than just deploy the "but your materialistic methods can't work for my non-material god" line.

Maybe one day?   

 
"Don't make me come down there."

God

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8314 on: January 19, 2016, 02:35:20 PM »
And I would agree but Alan thinks there is evidence. It isn't what you or I might regard as evidence but he'll tell you the whole wondrous world from his little bitty toeses up to big ginormous mountains are all evidence and it's all backed up by his own experiences.

He reminds me of those people that convince themselves they're bullet proof with some kind of magic words or some such thing, the next thing that happens to them, well, you know_____

ippy

PS I'm coming up for my 74th year soon and my memory is getting like that other old blokes PC password, "amnesia".

Can't remember who's it is that thinks they're bullet proof, no doubt you have.       

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8315 on: January 19, 2016, 02:38:07 PM »
I don't assume any such thing! My thoughts can, and do at times, dwell on things I have never experienced or heard of ... just as most fiction writers minds do.
Of course I am aware that you believe in free will, Len, so what do you assume to be the cause of events which initiate thought patterns in your brain?
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8316 on: January 19, 2016, 02:40:33 PM »
NS,

No chance. I've tried many, many times - notably with poor Vlad who just disappears over the hill when I do ask, scattering accusations of not answering questions in his wake - and so far as I know no-one else either has ever even attempted to build that bridge from feelings to facts.

Pity really. I had hoped that the more thoughtful theists who believe in an objective god would at least recognise the problem rather than just deploy the "but your materialistic methods can't work for my non-material god" line.

Maybe one day?   

To be fair, there are many atheists who ask for evidence of this other stuff without understanding that the real issue is what we mean by evidence. With a methodology, asking for evidence is useless.


Also I would suggest that, although wrong repeatedly and often, t'other Alan, absent from this parish recently, did think his retreads of WLC were real attempts to address the issue. I also think that when Vlad goes 'personal experience', he thinks he is saying something useful.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8317 on: January 19, 2016, 02:44:28 PM »
He reminds me of those people that convince themselves they're bullet proof with some kind of magic words or some such thing, the next thing that happens to them, well, you know_____

ippy

PS I'm coming up for my 74th year soon and my memory is getting like that other old blokes PC password, "amnesia".

Can't remember who's it is that thinks they're bullet proof, no doubt you have.     

Nope but it did remind me of this


http://www.phrases.org.uk/quotes/last-words/john-sedgwick.html

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8318 on: January 19, 2016, 02:51:29 PM »
I would agree with share their wisdom, accumulated over their lifetime, with their children to give them a good start in making up their own minds. share their wisdom and wouldn't a part of that wisdom would always look for the evidence.

How do you defend accepting anything without even the slightest piece of a modicum of evidence?

ippy
As I have said previously, there is evidence in abundance.  How else could it have survived for 2000 years in spite of all the persecution and still be the dominant religion religion of the entire planet?
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8319 on: January 19, 2016, 02:53:06 PM »
As I have said previously, there is evidence in abundance.  How else could it have survived for 2000 years in spite of all the persecution and still be the dominant religion religion of the entire planet?
How about: because it tells an awful lot of people exactly what they want to hear - that there's something, some person in fact somewhere who is looking out for them and cares for them at all times and in all places (even if the demonstration of this care and concern is, to say the least, rather hit and miss), and principally that they won't actually really die and vanish utterly into total oblivion when they breathe their last?

That seems infinitely more plausible to me, based on human psychology as Gordon has just pointed out, than that the contents of such beliefs are true. That's the 'else' that answers your question "How else ...?"
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 02:59:31 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8320 on: January 19, 2016, 02:55:04 PM »
NS,

Quote
To be fair, there are many atheists who ask for evidence of this other stuff without understanding that the real issue is what we mean by evidence. With a methodology, asking for evidence is useless.

Yes, which is why I tend to ask for a method, a process, an anything to distinguish their clams from just guessing. If they don’t think that the methods of science or logic work, then fine – but surely there has to be something more than, “because I say so” in their place doesn’t there?

Quote
Also I would suggest that, although wrong repeatedly and often, t'other Alan, absent from this parish recently, did think his retreads of WLC were real attempts to address the issue.

Well, whether or not he’d call the flakey five “evidence” I’m not sure about. Either way though, as they’re logically hopeless (as are Alien’s attempts to support them) it probably doesn’t matter much.   

Quote
I also think that when Vlad goes 'personal experience', he thinks he is saying something useful.

No doubt. The problem though is that when he’s then asked why anyone would privilege his personal experience of his god over anyone else’s personal experiences of different gods entirely he goes all quiet. Or abusive.

PS I’m listening to Richard & Linda Thompson’s “I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight” as I’m typing. Still sounds bloody brilliant after all these years  :)
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8321 on: January 19, 2016, 02:56:07 PM »
How else could it have survived for 2000 years in spite of all the persecution and still be the dominant religion religion of the entire planet?

People, Alan, just fallible people and their agendas.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8322 on: January 19, 2016, 02:58:31 PM »
AB,

Quote
As I have said previously, there is evidence in abundance.  How else could it have survived for 2000 years in spite of all the persecution and still be the dominant religion religion of the entire planet?

That's called survivor bias - another fallacy.

And besides, if you go by numbers it isn't the dominant religion in any case - Islam is. Does that means that the evidence for Mohammed is even more "in abundance"? 
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8323 on: January 19, 2016, 02:59:25 PM »
Dear Alan,

Quote
    The Christian faith is all about freely accepting Jesus as your saviour.  We have been given the freedom to choose by God Himself.

    But before people can make this free choice, they need to know what the Christian message is all about. If they rely only on media coverage and information from their peers they will get a very distorted view of the Christian faith.

I don't think the bold bit is correct, well not in my experience.

Gonnagle.

Yes, you are right.  God can come to people in many ways.  A priest once told me that there will be a crossroads opportunity in most people's lives where they will make the decision to turn to God, or turn away from Him.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 03:12:56 PM by Alan Burns »
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #8324 on: January 19, 2016, 03:00:56 PM »
I don't think the bold bit is correct, well not in my experience.

Gonnagle.
I don't think the bold bit is correct, well not in my experience.

Gonnagle.

Yes, you are right.  God can come to people in many ways.  A priest once told me that there will be a crossroads opportunity in most people's lives where they will make the decision to turn to God, or turn away from Him.

A priest once told me if I bent over a bit further, it wouldn't hurt.