Searching for GOD...

[Leonard James]

someone who's too concerned with literal accuracy or formality. It's a negative term that implies someone is showing off .

also known as nit-picking. 

[Nearly Sane]

someone who's too concerned with literal accuracy or formality. It's a negative term that implies someone is showing off .

And pointing out your hypocrisy isn't covered by that.

[Leonard James]

I doubt Alan will get it, Leonard.

As it dispenses with any need for "Satan", he will find it very difficult.

[Nearly Sane]

NS,

Pedant!

And pretty much proud of it. Imagine caring about consistency or accuracy in talking about science or philosophy!

[Rhiannon]

And pretty much proud of it. Imagine caring about consistency or accuracy in talking about science or philosophy!

That's the word I would gave used, NS- accurate.

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

Don't we all think we are right as opposed to people we think are wrong because of a 'special insight', e.g. we are not in different to reason and they are?

To a degree, but fortunately there are patterns of reasoning that can be shown to be invalid because of flaws in their logical structure. Formal logical errors are always wrong arguments, and so to a lesser extent are informal ones.

Whether or not we think we have “special insights”, these things give some of us at least the ability to grasp that arguments we make to validate those supposed insights are necessarily wrong.

AB on the other hand just commits fallacy after fallacy, apparently oblivious to the corrosive effect they have on his claims of conjectures as facts.

My distaste isn’t to do with the mediaeval menagerie of causal agents he uses to populate his personal ontology (that’s up to him) but rather with his indifference to reason, and to the brutal judgmentalism it leads to.

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

And pretty much proud of it. Imagine caring about consistency or accuracy in talking about science or philosophy!

You do know that I was joking right?

[Nearly Sane]

I know people who are indifferent to reason who are not judgemental, and people who adhere to reason who are brutally judgemental. I don't see that you have made the case that Alan's position leads to being judgemental any more than an adherence to reason

[Nearly Sane]

NS,

You do know that I was joking right?

Yes, I was just taking the opportunity to exclaim the pride of pedantry.

[Sassy]

Sass you have created your own version of the deity to suit your perspective of the world.

WRONG: What is more you make a statement you have no understanding, education or knowledge to support.
Why is that? Why is it, you cannot face your own truth? The fact remains that you are wrong and have a double mind when it comes to justice, judgment, man and God.

As for the deity featured in the Bible it is EVIL, darling Satan couldn't be any worse. I will pass judgement on it, and would try to exterminate it if it existed, which I don't believe it does!

WRONG: The God of the bible is only evil because you are evil.
You make double standards. It is ok for the law here and man to judge another putting them to death or imprisoning them for their wrongs. You have no power of thinking and understanding when it comes to the order of man, life and creation.
You repay wrong with wrong in that you cannot see your own wrong and double standards.

You can make as many excuses and change the subject but you are WRONG...

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

I know people who are indifferent to reason who are not judgemental, and people who adhere to reason who are brutally judgemental. I don't see that you have made the case that Alan's position leads to being judgemental any more than an adherence to reason

The case is that, in his world, there are no checks and balances - if he believes it, it must be true; true for him, and true for others too. Some others though on having the flaws in their reasoning pointed out will think, "Oh yeah, that's a really bad argument" and will either amend their belief or will at least reign it in as a "true for me only" subjective opinion. 

[Sassy]

Sassy, you said 'What I would like to know is what made your love grow so cold you would ignore such evils so you do not have to believe?'. Not sure where Hitler comes into that. Can you explain?

Follow the thread.

God is that person who makes us realise that we are not alone and that if man was to ignore Gods existence then evil could prosper and the most horrific events can become reality. In history everyone from Adam to the present day believers can see the reality of Gods love making a difference in the world.
What I would like to know is what made your love grow so cold you would ignore such evils so you do not have to believe?

I was talking to Shaker... I think it is obvious...

[Sassy]

Thanks treeless ippy, that explains much. Before you got the giggles, you ran around banging your head so much that engaging with you is like being alone. Now have a cookie!

or two... let him spoil himself...

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

Yes, I was just taking the opportunity to exclaim the pride of pedantry.

"Exclaim" or "proclaim"? 

[Sassy]

Cookie? Do you mean a biscuit?

ippy

Only you could take the biscuit.... LOL!

You say that something or someone (really) ​takes the biscuit when it or they have done something that you ​find ​extremely ​annoying or ​surprising:
And you say she's ​opening ​your ​letters now? Oh, that really ​takes the biscuit!

It is true you do take the biscuit when it comes to speaking about things you do not understand and I suppose to those in the know it can be annoying or rather just irritating that you are the only one who cannot see it.

 

[Nearly Sane]

NS,

The case is that, in his world, there are no checks and balances - if he believes it, it must be true; true for him, and true for others too. Some others though on having the flaws in their reasoning pointed out will think, "Oh yeah, that's a really bad argument" and will either amend their belief or will at least reign it in as a "true for me only" subjective opinion.

I think this fails because of the ought/is gap. One can be very rational about is discussing but if your ought position is one that brutal judgment is required then you can have a rational discussion as they did at Wannsee about how you best carry out genocide. And you can believe that we are all God's daisy chain and despite any lack of rationality in discussion not be brutally judgemental.

[Nearly Sane]

NS,

"Exclaim" or "proclaim"? 

Both

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

I think this fails because of the ought/is gap. One can be very rational about is discussing but if your ought position is one that brutal judgment is required then you can have a rational discussion as they did at Wannsee about how you best carry out genocide. And you can believe that we are all God's daisy chain and despite any lack of rationality in discussion not be brutally judgemental.

Yes I see - I phrased it ineptly earlier when I said, "...to the brutal judgmentalism it leads to" as if it were a general phenomenon rather than, "...has led to" in his case specifically.     

[Gonnagle]

Dear Alan,

Just a thought for you to consider, this devil of yours, and I say yours not mine, all I know is that evil exists in this world, man's inhumanity to man but it is even greater than that, man's indifference to all living creatures, anyway this devil, do you not think that it belittles God, just a thought that you might consider.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

NS,

Yes I see - I phrased it ineptly earlier when I said, "...to the brutal judgmentalism it leads to" as if it were a general phenomenon rather than, "...has led to" in his case specifically.   

To be honest with Alan, I am not sure what it leads to, I'm not even sure he does because when you point out things like the judgement he makes on those tempted by Satan there is such cognitive dissonance that he seems to be almost Calvinist. His judgement, and his belief in what will be judged by his god seem separated.

[Sebastian Toe]

I am sure it would have helped if you were aware of how the devil tempts us away from God.

Are you aware of how the devil tempts people away from God?

[Nearly Sane]

Are you aware of how the devil tempts people away from God?

Chocolate and hi speed wifi.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

Chocolate and hi speed wifi.

Not if you believe in Wigs "Quetzalcoatl" how is that pronounced, quickgetyercoat, oh Blasphemy! blasphemy blasforyou blasforeveryone.

Gonnagle.

[Maeght]

Follow the thread.
I was talking to Shaker... I think it is obvious...

Your Hitler comment came in a reply to me. I know the quoting system confuses you but,

you said

'What I would like to know is what made your love grow so cold you would ignore such evils so you do not have to believe?'

And I asked

'What 'evils' and who is ignoring them Sassy?'

You replied

'Hitler to name one! How did he manage to do what he did?'

I questioned where Hitler came in because you seemed to be talking in the current tense not the past. That is, that your initila comment (see above) referred to people now ignoring evils and I was interested to know who you were referring to and what these evils were. So, who and what were you referring to?

[Alan Burns]

Dear Alan,

Just a thought for you to consider, this devil of yours, and I say yours not mine, all I know is that evil exists in this world, man's inhumanity to man but it is even greater than that, man's indifference to all living creatures, anyway this devil, do you not think that it belittles God, just a thought that you might consider.

Gonnagle.

I sincerely wish that the devil did not exist, but I can't bring myself to ignore the evidence.  The inspired words of the bible show the devil's presence at the beginning, and his prophetic presence is still there at the end.  I know the big question is why does God allow the devil to exist, and why can He not do a better job of protecting us?  I can't answer these questions - only God can.  But I can see how in our limited human logic these questions somehow get used to diminish God's power, or even to show that God does not exist.

The fact that our human awareness can perceive so many things which are wrong in this world shows that God must have given us some insight into imagining how things could be much better.  We can recognise evil, but I find it hard to attribute this to human beings, all of whom are initially born innocent.  Humans do get corrupted into evil ways, but does it all come from other humans?  Our local priest who has accumulated much wisdom during his 90 years on this earth says how he can see the cloven hoof of the devil's work in much of today's modern society.