Searching for GOD...

[SqueakyVoice]

We were all embryos once.  So were our parents and grandparents.  These were all real people.  Just imagine if abortion had been legalised in 1867 instead of 1967, how many of us would be here?

Just a thought.

Around 15-20% of all embryos are spontaneously aborted before the pregnancy reaches the 20week mark.

Does your god kill all those "innocent people" or has he outsourced it to this "Devil" character?

Just a thought.

[SusanDoris]

We were all embryos once.  So were our parents and grandparents.  These were all real people.  Just imagine if abortion had been legalised in 1867 instead of 1967, how many of us would be here?

Just a thought.

Without doubt, many hundreds, if not thousands, of women would have lived instead of dying from the dangers of back street abortions.


I heard part of a World Service programme this morning when a woman from Uganda (I think) was pointing out that women were still being denied safe abortions.I bet she'd like to have
shaken the interviewer (male)  who, it seemed, would prefer the status quo to remain. this is not right.

[Alan Burns]

The overwhelming majority of people are in support of and full agreement with euthanasia

I think this statement confirms the observations of our wise old priest on modern society.  It is so sad that the sanctity of human life is no longer recognised by so many people.

[torridon]

I think this statement confirms the observations of our wise old priest on modern society.  It is so sad that the sanctity of human life is no longer recognised by so many people.

On the other hand, perhaps the notion of sanctity is due for revisiting; now we are starting to recognise the value of all life, not just human, and that is a rebalancing that is long overdue; for too long humans have been self-regarding, dismissive of other creatures, blind to a bigger understanding of life and the connectedness of all living things.

[Alan Burns]

On the other hand, perhaps the notion of sanctity is due for revisiting; now we are starting to recognise the value of all life, not just human, and that is a rebalancing that is long overdue; for too long humans have been self-regarding, dismissive of other creatures, blind to a bigger understanding of life and the connectedness of all living things.

It would seem that the human race are the only species who are able to perceive and appreciate "the value of all life".  But in doing so, are we not reducing the value of our own lives to be no better than those other species whose only aim is survival?  And where to we stop - insects? microbes? bacteria?

[Rhiannon]

I think this statement confirms the observations of our wise old priest on modern society.  It is so sad that the sanctity of human life is no longer recognised by so many people.

There is nothing 'wise' about endorsing suffering.

[Alan Burns]

There is nothing 'wise' about endorsing suffering.

We now have more resources than ever to help people cope with suffering, yet we are being faced with demands to sanction things which would have been unthinkable a few generations ago.

Is this the new wisdom of modern society?

[Shaker]

I think this statement confirms the observations of our wise old priest on modern society.  It is so sad that the sanctity of human life is no longer recognised by so many people.

I thought he sounded like an deranged old fool when you mentioned him before; thank you for confirming it.

Ever notice how these doom-peddling cretins for ever bewailing the awfulness of a modern world they hate never take the obvious next step and remove themselves from it?

As Rhiannon has already pointed out (as though it needed to be), there's nothing wise about condoning suffering. That's mental aberration - merely perverse in an individual, downright evil when their views lead them to enforce suffering on others.

[Shaker]

We now have more resources than ever to help people cope with suffering

Which are still not adequate in each, all and every case.

yet we are being faced with demands to do things which would have been unthinkable a few generations ago.

Unthinkable to whom? Euthanasia (in the broadest, literal sense of the good death and steps taken to ensure one) in some form has been with us for a very long time indeed.

Is this the new wisdom of modern society?

No, it's a very old wisdom that modern society, with its emphasis on individualism and individual freedoms, is catching up with, thank goodness (literally). It's a slow business and that slowness condemns far too many people to a protracted and painful (in all senses) death, but the arc of history on this as on so many other progressive issues runs one way only.

Normal people see suffering as a bad thing to be avoided. The acolytes of your miserable suffering-worshipping death cult have always been at the forefront of standing against every progressive measure aimed at reducing suffering - which would be fine if these dismal individuals confined their views and practices to themselves, except they don't, and agitate to have everybody else bow to their sado-masochistic perversions as well.

[Rhiannon]

We now have more resources than ever to help people cope with suffering, yet we are being faced with demands to do things which would have been unthinkable a few generations ago.

Is this the new wisdom of modern society?

This is garbage. A neighbour of mine had suffered so much with MND that he drove his electric wheelchair into his garden pond and drowned himself whilst his wife was out shopping. Your preference for allowing such situations to continue is disturbing.

[Shaker]

This is garbage. A neighbour of mine had suffered so much with MND that he drove his electric wheelchair into his garden pond and drowned himself whilst his wife was out shopping. Your preference for allowing such situations to continue is disturbing.

This is what it always comes down to with these ghastly types - I don't like it so you can't do it.

[Rhiannon]

This is what it always comes down to with these ghastly types - I don't like it so you can't do it.

To be accurate he thinks his loving daddy omnigod doesn't like it so he doesn't like it either.

[Shaker]

To be accurate he thinks his loving daddy omnigod doesn't like it so he doesn't like it either.

Which is their justification for absolutely anything - I have a personal hotline to the creator and the man from Del Monte he say no 

[Rhiannon]

Which is their justification for absolutely anything - I have a personal hotline to the creator and the man from Del Monte he say no 

And yet failing completely to get both the arrogance and the irony in claiming to know what their unknowable god thinks.

[Shaker]

And yet failing completely to get both the arrogance and the irony in claiming to know what their unknowable god thinks.

Precisely.

Two people debating rationally about moral issues (I agree with Sam Harris that ultimately moral issues boil down to matters of happiness and unhappiness, suffering and pleasure) can have a reasoned discussion about what constitutes the weal or woe of a sentient creature based on real facts about real things in the real world. As impassioned as it may get political debate proceeds in this manner. When one party starts invoking "This is wrong because God says so ..." then they've abandoned any pretence whatever of dialogue. It's a literal conversation-stopper; there's no debating with someone who conjures up divine sanction for what is merely their own personal opinion.

[Alan Burns]

Well Shaker and Rhiannon,
After reading the content of your last few posts I thank God that I am a Christian.

[Shaker]

Well Shaker and Rhiannon,
After reading the content of your last few posts I thank God that I am a Christian.

That's about all you can say, Alan.

Rhiannon has been and is glad she isn't any more. I'm glad I never have been. I might have ended up like you, technically in 2016 but intellectually living in a, at the very latest, fifteenth century universe populated by gods and devils and spooks and ghouls and ghosties, a dull slave of a god with the manners and morals of a brattish four year old, in denial of established fact and substituting for it every ludicrous, deranged whim cobbled together with spit and sealing wax. Free will here, the devil there.

Pitiable.

[Rhiannon]

Difficult to disagree with that, Shaker.

[Shaker]

Thank you.

[ippy]

Well Shaker and Rhiannon,
After reading the content of your last few posts I thank God that I am a Christian.

Alan it's a shame for you that you're just another one of those vacuous and particularly sanctimonious group of people that unfortunately, the rest of us have to endure from time to time.

ippy

[OH MY WORLD!]

Shaker thanks people for agreeing with him. (snork)
I really think the thanking is but a confirmation for him that he is the smartest man around. And he is the smartest man ever. You ask him, he'll tell ya.

[SusanDoris]

Well Shaker and Rhiannon,
After reading the content of your last few posts I thank God that I am a Christian.

Can't you see how very smug that sounds?
For those who think that suffering is right and good, there is an option to go and live where there is poverty and lack of medical help.

[Shaker]

Shaker thanks people for agreeing with him. (snork)
I really think the thanking is but a confirmation for him that he is the smartest man around. And he is the smartest man ever. You ask him, he'll tell ya.

I was thanking the compliment, not the agreement.

I'm not the smartest man ever; it's just that now you've shown up, by comparison I look like the smartest man ever.

[Alan Burns]

I thought he sounded like an deranged old fool when you mentioned him before; thank you for confirming it.

Ever notice how these doom-peddling cretins for ever bewailing the awfulness of a modern world they hate never take the obvious next step and remove themselves from it?

I find it truly shocking that you could write such things about a fellow human being who you have never met.

The person you speak of served in the Royal Navy before taking a late vocation to follow God's calling to become a priest.  He is a true gentleman who, though officially retired, is still offering help to people in our town.  He is currently doing his best to help save the marriage of one of our young couples with three young children.  He has a wealth of fascinating anecdotes accumulated over his long life, which he loves to share.  He is loved and respected by everyone I know in our town, and he will be sadly missed when God calls him back to heaven.

[Shaker]

I find it truly shocking that you could write such things about a fellow human being who you have never met.

You should see me when I really dislike someone.